Whistling Pines’ Barbie God: Dangerous Doctrine, Now in Another Cycle

Whistling Pines’ Barbie God: Dangerous Doctrine, Now in Another Cycle

I would like to introduce this blog with a prayer I wrote in my journal in August, 2008:

I know that I barely even know the tiniest bit about Your power and Your plans.  You know that I have recently prayed and asked for the privilege of knowing Your thoughts.  You have been so gentle to only give me what I am capable of comprehending.  I know that there is so much more, but I am afraid to become more emphasized on the wonder of You than of Yourself, Who You are.  Your works are great, it is addictive to be included in the supernatural nature of You, but I don’t want to allow my idol to be what You do.  That is why I am thankful that You are careful with me… I am special because I am chosen by my Creator, but I am not chosen because I am special.  If it were not for Your unmerited favor toward me, I would be lost so deep in the filth of my own sin.  You keep Your promises of love toward me, even when I sin.  I have moments of wickedness and rebellion, yet You do not discard me or write me off as a lost cause.

As the body of Christ, I confess our failures, our hatred toward one another, our pride, and our selfishness.  Please help me to get it right, and help me to help my brothers and sisters in Christ to get it right.  Our current state is shameful.  You deserve… a faithful servant and a whole world that is bowed down and confessing “Jesus Christ is Lord.”  The church has been scattered and confused because of unfaithfulness to You, and our disobedience to the two greatest commandments [love God, love others].  We have turned away from You and each other, all because we thing we know better than You.  How stupid!  It amazes me that You have such mercy, patience, and forgiveness toward 2000+ years of childish, ignorant, rebellious people.  Yet there have been sparks of revival.  Every now and then, someone comes along who recognizes their own depravity and believes that You are bigger than their sin.  Every once in a while, someone stirs things up by the power of Your Spirit.  I pray that this generation will be and is Your chosen generation, where those sparks are fanned into full blaze.

You have allowed Your bride to sink to such depths and be overtaken almost to destruction.  Churches are dying all around.  But I know that You have only done this so that we would see the error of our ways and feel the consequences of our bad decisions.  On behalf of Your people, I pray that You will pour Your Spirit out once again, that sleeping Christians will wake up… You have not allowed us to be utterly ruined.  You have set aside a faithful remnant in each of us individually and corporately.  Lord, I am seeking Your favor on me and on Your church.  Help us turn from our sins.  Help us to know the truth about how we are to love You and each other.  It is no wonder the world ridicules Your followers.  We are a screwed up bunch.  But we are chosen, and so I ask that You make a name for Yourself that will strike awe in the hearts of unbelievers.  Let our religion be the true religion of loving You and loving each other.  Break it down into practical language that everyone can understand, and bless us with teachable hearts that desire to be obedient to You.

Right now, God, Creator of the Universe, one of Your created ones calls out to You to hear this prayer.  For Your sake, and for Your glory, look at your bride with favor.  See our desolate state and have pity on us.  Listen.  Read.  These words are not just ink and paper, they are offered to You in faith that You will return Your bride to a glorious state… I pray, “How long?” for your church.  I an not asking You to do this because we are so great, I am asking You to do this because we are so desperate!  You are merciful.  Throughout the generations, You have shown local and temporary demonstrations of Your glory, the glory of healing and restoration that can only come from the One True God.  I pray that You will show Yourself like never before in my life, in my family and friend’s lives, at church, in Umatilla, in Florida, in the United States, and in the world.  Worldwide, lasting revival that continues…

The enemy has had enough fun toying with us, lying to us, tempting us, and undermining all of Your work.  I pray that you will raise up a church that knows the authority it possesses in Jesus Christ, that does not grieve Your Holy Spirit or fight against You.  But, Lord, we don’t have what it takes.  I am believing You, that You will decide to turn the hearts of Your people back to You.  We need You to work this miracle in us.  We are helpless without Your Spirit giving us the will to obey You.  Please hear my request and act on it.  Do not delay.  Send revival to us.

Oh Lord, give me insight and understanding.  Let it be for me like it was for Daniel.  Let it be that as soon as I set pen to paper [in prayer], You already answered [my prayer].  Let me be highly esteemed by You like Daniel was [Daniel 10:11].  I know he was a man, and therefore a sinner, like me.  I believe that You can choose me like You chose him.  Give me something to think about.  Give me understanding.  Is it the time of the end? [Here, when I write “the end,” I refer to Daniel 12:4, not the end of the world.] Fill me with mourning, if that’s what it takes.  Instruct me to fast for three weeks.  Please do whatever You want with me.  But, enable me, because I am weak.  Make me fall into a deep sleep with my face to the ground [Daniel 10:9].  Tell me that since the first day that I set my mind to gain understanding and humble myself before you that my words have been heard [Daniel 10:12].  Respond to me.  Explain to me what will happen.  Touch me and give me strength to handle all that You want to dish out… I pray that the people who know their God will firmly resist the enemy by the power of Your Spirit.  You said “those who are wise instruct many” [Daniel 12:3] – this sounds to me like the early church.  They fell by the sword, were burned, captured, and plundered.  They received a little help with this [Constantine] and were joined by the insincere.  The wise have stumbled.  We are in the process of being refined, purified, and made spotless.

Is it the time of the end? [Again, here, when I write “the end,” I refer to Daniel 12:4, not the end of the world.]  It is an appointed time.  Lord, let this generation be the one to see the appointed time! …Deliver Your people!  The words have been sealed to the time of the end [Daniel 12:4].  Is it that time?  I pray Lord that is is!  All of the human race cries out for resolution… Some don’t know it, but it is in each of us.  You said those who are wise will understand.  Lord, let me be wise.  Let me understand.  Don’t send me on my way…

I know I don’t deserve it, but let me live to see all of this and to know and live according to the wisdom You give me.  Lord, You said that You have determined times and places for each person.  What do You want me to do?  I have an intense desire to get in on Your plans, to pray for Your will to done on earth as it is in Heaven, and to join You in the work of Your Spirit in the name of Your Son.  I want to look back on my life and know that You have used this unworthy vessel, made worthy by the blood of Jesus’s crucified body, to do amazing things in my time and my place, appointed by You from the beginning.  I am writing everything down, because I believe You will and are showing me… the work of Your hands.  I want to give You glory in such a way that no one who reads the words can remain unchanged in some way.

One of the reasons I wrote my prayers down on a regular basis was that God was telling me that I would need to refer back to them later, I would need to remember what it was like to not know His plan, because He would reveal it, and then I might forget how it happened.  He told me that He was doing something new, but something old, and that my journey of discovery would be “a book.”  For the longest time, I thought that this meant a published hardcover or paperback.  I suppose that is still a possibility, but I’m beginning to wonder if this “book” is actually www.whatgoddoes.com.  Time will tell.  The point I’m getting at, though, is that I knew then that I was on to something with amazing spiritual significance.  The more God opened my eyes, the more inclusive my prayers became.  I wasn’t just praying for MY church or for local churches or churches in general, I began praying for this organic, dynamic, entity – the body of Christ.  I wasn’t praying for my plans, I was praying for His plan of the ages, without even realizing that was what I was praying for.  The walls of the churches were disappearing, and I was seeing the people trapped inside the system, the people who were starving, like me.  And I even dared to pray for the whole world.  The whole world!  Sure, I had prayed for the world before, but I had always done it with a defeated frame of mind, because I had been taught from a very young age that most of the world would reject the “offer” of salvation and go to hell or be annihilated.  In other words, when I prayed for the world, I prayed without hope, not believing that my prayers would make much difference.  My prayers were becoming more daring.  Sometimes I would finish praying and wonder if God was mad at me for asking too much, for expecting too much out of Him.

This is the fourth blog in this series.  Here are the links for the first blog, the second blog, and the third blog.

This blog series is inspired by a sermon called “Barbie God” by Pastor Scott Wiens.  Usually, when I quote verbal or written messages by people who believe in eternal torment, these people accuse me of taking their words out of context.  Since I will quote from “Barbie God” throughout this blog, I encourage you to click here and listen to the message in its entirety.  That way you can be a fair judge of whether I have taken Scott’s words out of context.

When Scott was warning the sheep about how dangerous universalism is, he described it as “one of the most dangerous doctrines that’s now in another cycle.”  I’d like to address the “now in another cycle” portion of his comments.  I’ve heard pastors respond in all sorts of ways to Christian Universalism – the belief that Jesus actually accomplishes His mission to “seek and save the lost.”  Often, pastors say, “Oh, this is nothing new.”  Scott’s comment is very similar to this, and here’s how.  Orthodox Christianity has systematically suppressed the idea that Jesus “is the Savior of all mankind, especially those who believe.”  You can read about some of this history here.  I wrote a blog about “shifts” in the spiritual question-asking/question-answering environment throughout church history, and you can read it here.  Perhaps my “shifts” are similar to Scott’s “now in another cycle” idea.  Here’s the kicker, though – we are living in an age that is remarkably different from all of human history:

…The third shift is happening now.  Really it has been happening all along, only no one knew it, because anyone who dared speak up about it was quickly labeled heretic and put out of the church.  This is still the standard approach in most congregations, but something else happened that the institutional church never expected, something that if they had known ahead of time they still would not have been able to prevent.  Something remarkably similar in potential to the printing press, that is, the internet.  Social media.  The ability for people to easily and anonymously access information.  We are living during a pivotal time in history.  God is turning the institutional church upside down and inside out, shaking it to see what falls out and what sticks.  The wineskin is bursting with Good News that really is good.  People are remembering Who God is and what God does, how His plan of the ages involves calling out a “firstfruit” people for Himself, and that this firstfruit harvest is just the beginning of the entire harvest.  The year of Jubilee is on the horizon – out of Zion’s hill salvation comes.

Part of the reason that the very first youtube video I ever created, Jesus Saves Everyone, says, “the internet belongs to God” is that God is using the internet as a means to open up the vision that was sealed shut in the book of Daniel:

And thou, O Daniel, hide the things, and seal the book till the time of the end, many do go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied… at the completion of the scattering of power of the holy people…

In the past, people who were labeled heretic and put out of the church effectively “disappeared” from among others who might have benefitted from hearing what they had to say.  In the past, it was very difficult for someone to look up scriptures in many different translations, find out where translations came from, study the Hebrew and Greek words, study etymology, and most importantly, study church history to find out who, what, where, when, and how the beliefs of the early church were lost in the unholy alliance between the church and Rome (and all its violent and oppressive consequences that persisted until just a few hundred years ago).  But things have changed.  Heretics don’t just disappear, because with social networks, their peers can anonymously look into the so-called heresy and form their own opinions about whether the church authorities should have reacted so strongly.  Yes, thank God, things have changed.  Now, people have many useful tools for Bible study at their fingertips.  And if they dig into church history, they aren’t just reading church-approved or church-recommended sources.  They can find out what really happened and why.  In the blog, Why Chan Can’t Erase Hell, I write more extensively on suspiciously hidden or omitted information in orthodox study materials.  I would like to believe that it is simply an oversight by orthodox authors and publishers, but my good sense tells me there’s a sinister power at work – the power of darkness.  And I’m not talking about demons, here.  I’m talking about ordinary, normally fair-minded people in high places going out of their way to make sure the average church attender doesn’t find out about certain information.  Information that makes orthodoxy look stupid and corrupt.  Only God knows whether this is subconscious or intentional.  He can judge fairly, and, in fact, He may already have, considering that way back in Daniel’s time He already had in mind “at the completion of the scattering of power of the holy people…”  Here’s an excerpt from the blog I mentioned:

I remember doing some early research on church history (this was going on before I realized Jesus succeeded in His mission as Savior of the whole world) and seeing that Origen taught universalism.  I glossed straight past it.  Do you know why?  Because it was accompanied by an explanation about how Origen’s beliefs were condemned as heretical.  That’s how my mind worked before God’s five year overhaul.  I figured that if church leaders all agreed that his teaching was bogus, then it must be true.  I never even bothered looking up the word, “universalism”, until years later.  It wasn’t even part of my vocabulary.

Fast forward to the time when all the pieces were starting to fit, when I discovered how much political corruption was taking place in the upper tiers of the church heirarchy, when I knew that the people in positions of authority who had the power to decide if other people were heretics were not these holy, nearly-infallible leaders I had imagined them to be.  I picked up the very same book, and read the very same words, but this time, I saw the reference in tiny print to see the notes section in the back of the book.  So I turned to the back of the book and discovered that Origen’s teaching on universalism was not considered heretical until HUNDREDS of years after he died.  Doesn’t that sound a bit suspicious?  What took them so long?  Furthermore, why was this information tucked away, instead of right there next to Origen’s name in the chapter?  Were current Christian publishers not also wondering why it took them so long to condemn universalism?  If so, why are they being so cryptic about it?  If not, why not?  This was a turning point in my research, because I began second guessing all the experts, checking and double checking everything they claimed.  I didn’t trust them any more.  I had to know and learn for myself, instead of taking their word for it.

If I had been born 100 years ago, it would have taken me a lot longer to find what I was looking for.  But, like I said, things have changed.  And I have some BAD NEWS FOR CHURCHIANITY (but it’s really good news for them eventually).  You know how in the past, that pesky heresy just went away until it was time for another cycle?  Guess what?!  It’s NOT GOING AWAY any more.  Here’s the latest media attention to the subject of Hell: http://www.hellboundthemovie.com/.

The house of cards is collapsing.  People are finding out about how the system has kept them in the dark for so long.

It’s kind of funny.  Someone posted a comment on one of my youtube vids that said, “Rob Bell, is that you?”  Fundamentalist Christians accuse me all the time of being a disciple of Rob Bell.  I always refer them to the date of my first youtube vid, so that they can see that Bell’s book, Love Wins, was published March 15, 2011.  My first youtube vid was posted December 28, 2009.  How easy it would be for the system, if this were a Rob Bell thing or an Alice Spicer thing.  The system could just present it is if it were the insanely twisted views of a renegade heretic, everyone would believe the system, and that’s the end of that.  But this isn’t about isolated spiritual weirdos in crisis – this is God doing a new thing, but its an old thing.  And it’s happening all around the world.  It isn’t going away.  God finishes what He starts.  He may take His good old time, but He will accomplish His purpose, even *gasp* without churchianity’s permission.  He is rescuing His church from those who suppress the Spirit and inadvertently or intentionally become spiritual bullies.  What is done in the dark is being brought into the light.  The days of private conversations and private meetings with “heretics” are coming to an end.  Get ready to abandon your beloved doctrine or defend it in the light of God’s glory!

Today’s religious system is the modern day version of the Pharisaical system, as is evidenced by the content of Scott’s sermon. 

Christian Universalism is a dangerous doctrine, according to Scott and orthodox theology in general.  I agree.  It is VERY dangerous.  Dangerous to the system.  It isn’t dangerous to the church – the real church – the church that may or may not show up on Sunday morning in a building.  God’s spies are everywhere.

Christian Universalism is a dangerous doctrine.  The Pharisees said the same of Jesus’s doctrine (John 11:48-53):

If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation.”

Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”

…So from that day on they plotted to take his life.

The system no longer has the power to take a heretic’s life, but there are emotional ways of “killing” people.  I’ve replaced just a few words in John 11:48-53, to give you an idea of what goes on in those private meetings, when church leaders discuss the “heretic” who is trying to introduce “dangerous doctrine” into their little spiritual kingdom:

If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the bank will come and take away both our building and our jobs.”

Then one of them, named Rock Hart, who was Elder Deacon that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! You do not realize that it is better for you that one man is disciplined for the people than that the whole church be divided.”

…So from that day on they plotted to shut him up.

Comments
  • Lanny A. Eichert August 19, 2012 at 11:41 am

    CHURCHIANITY is Alice’s scape goat and it is trying to read her constant straw men arguments.

    they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast {Revelation 17: 8}

    This statement still remains in the perfect literal Holy Bible to demonstrate to the likes of Alice that God never purposed to save everybody. He intentionally ommitted their names from the Book of Life before He even founded the world.

    And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. {Revelation 20: 15} That’s a one way ticket from the Great White Throne.

  • Mary Vanderplas August 19, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    You make a good point about alternative ideas and viewpoints no longer being able to be effectively suppressed because of the ease both of propagating ideas and of gaining the information needed to investigate them thoroughly. I agree that this is a good thing for the church, whether authorities in the institution know it or not.

    While I agree that some within the ranks of orthodoxy are motivated by self-interest, seeking to squelch alternative viewpoints that would pose a threat to their position and power, I don’t know that this is true of most of those who oppose the doctrine of universalism. (I love your adaptation of the John 11 text to reflect the suppression of alternative views in the church today.) I think that for many who act to suppress this doctrine, the issue is simply allegiance to what they believe “the church has always taught” and a fear of something new and different (and radical). It is likely, too, I think, that they are operating with some of the same misconceptions that I had before I found your website and was challenged by your vision of who God is and what God does. There was much I didn’t know and much I had wrong. Specifically, I construed the justice of God in punitive, retributive terms; I glossed over or explained away the many universalistic texts in scripture (having learned to read the Bible through Calvinistic eyes); I didn’t see the work of Christ as God’s decisive engagement with sin; I assumed that the accepted teaching from the beginning was that only some will be saved. Reading your thought-provoking and informative blogs has opened my eyes to much that I hadn’t known or hadn’t considered seriously before. I suspect that there are others in the church who are like I am, or like I was before your blogs coaxed me to lay aside my biases, i.e., who dismiss the doctrine without having really considered it seriously. And I’m sure there are others who have considered it and concluded that it doesn’t conform to the Bible’s teaching and is therefore dangerous – a view I don’t share but need to respect. None of this is to say that anyone is justified in suppressing the teaching of universalism or oppressing those who subscribe to it. It is only to say that I think there are different reasons why people are intolerant when it comes to the doctrine of universalism.

    I love the prayer – both for what it reveals about your spiritual journey and your deep hunger for more of God and for what it says about God’s will for his people. Thanks for sharing the prayer – and your story.

  • Lanny A. Eichert August 19, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    Alice, what is the symbolic imagery in these words of the Revelation 17: 8 & 20: 15 that change the meaning of these words from what it literally says to you tell me what God intended them to mean?

    whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world
    whosoever was not found written in the book of life

    It is beyond my imagination to think of any other meaning for these words, so please show me what symbols and images these few words contain and how you determine what those symbols and images are to what God’s intended meaning is. Please give me your interpretation and reason for disputing the meaning of these two groups of words based on their symbols and images. Personally, I don’t see any symbols and images in these few words and they mean to me that the names are the list of those people God intended to save to eternal life and the list was made by God before the world began. What other meaning can there be? If your name is not in the book of life, God never intended to save you and that’s that. 17: 8 describes such a group of people God never intended to save. How is it that you find its meaning opposite of that?

    • admin August 20, 2012 at 12:58 am

      I think that your comments in reference to, “whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” are a misinterpretation of the meaning. We agree that the names are the names of the elect, but we disagree on the idea only the elect are reconciled to God.

      If the book of life is meant to indicate a forever-saved (in the book) or forever-not-saved (not in the book) condition, as you imply, then what do you make of Revelation 3:5, “He who is overcoming – this one – shall be arrayed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the scroll of the life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before His messengers.” What is this “blotting out” business? Do you think that believers (who are not overcomers) can lose their salvation, Lanny? I don’t think you do.

      • Michelle August 20, 2012 at 10:40 pm

        “Please talk to me on the vid or blog comment section (public).”

        I sent you a PM on Youtube explaining why I will talk to you in private and not publicly. Most people are not comfortable discussion their own private problems publicly, including on the internet. It is wrong to demand and even pressure someone to talk about their own private problems in public and to deny them any help or prayer if they don’t so. I don’t make such demands and I’d like to be treated in the same way.

        • admin August 21, 2012 at 12:38 am

          I will not communicate with you in private conversations, because you pulled a quote out of context and used it against me as a dagger. I don’t blame you for not wanting to have personal discussions in a public forum, but I also don’t blame me for having reservations about private conversations with you. It seems we are kind of stuck, doesn’t it? I’m not really sure what to do about it…

  • Stephen Helbig August 20, 2012 at 2:43 am

    Notice the following three quotes from above Blog ~ PLEASE
    1) ~ One of the reasons I wrote my prayers down on a regular basis was that God was telling me that I would need to refer back to them later, I would need to remember what it was like to not know His plan, because He would reveal it, and then I might forget how it happened…. He told me that He was doing SOMETHING NEW, but SOMETHING OLD, and that my journey of discovery would be “a book.” For the longest time, I thought that this meant a published hardcover or paperback. I suppose that is still a possibility, but I’m beginning to wonder if this “book” is actually http://www.whatgoddoes.com. Time will tell. The point I’m getting at, though, is that I knew then that I was on to something with amazing spiritual significance. The more God opened my eyes, the more inclusive my prayers became. I wasn’t just praying for MY church or for local churches or churches in general, I began praying for this organic, dynamic, entity – the body of Christ. I wasn’t praying for my plans, I was praying for His plan of the ages, without even realizing that was what I was praying for. The walls of the churches were disappearing, and I was seeing the people trapped inside the system, the people who were starving, like me. And I even dared to pray for the whole world.
    2) ~ How easy it would be for the system, if this were a Rob Bell thing or an Alice Spicer thing. The system could just present it is if it were the insanely twisted views of a renegade heretic, everyone would believe the system, and that’s the end of that. But this isn’t about isolated spiritual weirdos in crisis – this is God doing a NEW THING, but its an OLD THING. And it’s happening all around the world. It isn’t going away. God finishes what He starts.
    3) ~ His plan of the ages involves calling out a “firstfruit” people for Himself, and that this firstfruit harvest is just the beginning of the entire harvest. The year of Jubilee is on the horizon – out of Zion’s hill salvation comes.

    The portion I wish to bring life to is
    1) ~ He (GOD) was doing SOMETHING NEW but SOMETHING OLD and that my journey of discovery would be a “book” Please NOTICE ~ “book”
    2) ~ – this is God doing a NEW THING, but its an OLD THING. And it’s happening all around the world. ~ Jesus Saves Everyone
    3) ~ His plan of the ages involves calling out a “firstfruit” people for Himself

    Let me start by saying your journey started much like mine. At one time my questions even included” Lord could I be in a heresy, it seems I’m all alone in this. And God’s response to me at that time was ~ I have 7000 others. Now I took this response from God to mean that 7000 others existed and this was not a literally 7000, but a group existing emerging, and God in His fullness had ALL THINGS in His hands, and He was completely on course for His plan of the ages. There existed as always a “firstfruit” people for Himself and I was part of this, I wasn’t alone, but there was a great company, a cloud of witnesses, and a New Thing was about to be but is was also Old.

    ~ A brief personal testimony ~ In my mid 40’s, coming upon Y2K and the year 2000 I began to search for truth concerning many things I had come to believe in the Church system, (i.e. Eschatology being dispensational ism, the rapture of the church , The True “Israel of God”). These questions led to many others which led to this ~{ I remember sitting with a dear brother in the Lord (20 plus years my senior and Elder in the Lord),(about 1997), and we both said, ~ “Well that means ALL will be saved”}. That statement ”JESUS SAVES ALL” was a jar to both of us. Also this statement came after many of our learned teachings within Religiosity began to fall one by one, the first being the 1900’s teaching, and present teaching within the Church system of the” literal Rapture” of the church.
    p.s. ~ a little side note ~ The Rapture teaching taught by Hal Lindsey, Tim, LaHaye, Thomas Ice, Scofield, Darby and the Plymouth brethren, and many others has only existed in the past 150 yrs of church history.

    What I’m saying is I slowly began to unlearn many of Man’s Traditions and pursue by great trial only His Truth, no matter what the cost. Now let me say with Paul a fact which is true to this day, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.” I do not pretend to have attained to what I wish or hope to be. No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: “Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, And I run toward the goal to take the victory of the calling of God from on high in Christ Jesus The Messiah.”… “Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith.”

    Alice the part of your Blog that I find ATTENTION-GRABBING is ~ He (GOD) was doing SOMETHING NEW but SOMETHING OLD and that my journey of discovery would be a “book”

    Let me say ~ This “book” to me is The Book of Life comprised of living epistles known and read of all men. Now here is a rather difficult thing for us to grasp – as seen in early Christianity ,Paul, John, Peter… believed in a state of existence which could be both earth and heaven. This is what to us seems so puzzling. We cannot imagine heaven and earth becoming one, (The great eternal paradox ~ the two shall be one) but they could and did. Thus the beloved apostle John says: “I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven.” And we can see at close examination, all that follows shows clearly that in this view, heaven and earth now become merged into each other. To describe his vision he finds himself compelled to use the old familiar language about the Holy City and the Book of Life. (Rev. 21)
    Here I would like to reverently inject another thought? If the “Lamb” who opens the “book” in chapter five is not a four-legged lamb, it should not be difficult for anyone to understand that the “book” is not a two-covered book! And if that “book” is one of the Revelation’s wonderful symbols, does it not follow that the “book” in chapter twenty and twenty-one are likewise word-pictures in the form of symbols? The Book of Life To Me is a TOME, an especially large book, a single volume book made up of several volumes, many single writings bound in a volume forming forming a great large work of God.

    “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads the names of blasphemy. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:1,8). Notice this ~ According to the Emphatic Diaglott the correct rendering of the latter part of this passage is: “The Book of the Life of the Lamb.” Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, “…of the making of many books there is no end…” (Eccl. 12:12). THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB is the autobiography of God’s Lamb, the record of who He is, what He is like, and what He does. Everything you always wanted to know about the Son of God is contained in this wonderful Book of the Life of the Lamb! It is not a literal book at all, for the sons and daughters of the Most High are the LIVING RECORD AND REVELATION of the life of the indwelling Lamb. It is an autobiography. It was to the apostle Paul that the revelation was given that the Book of Life, the Book of the Lamb, the Book of the Son of God is a people. “Forasmuch as YOU are manifestly declared to be THE EPISTLE OF CHRIST ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. Who also has made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life” (II Cor. 3:3,6). This “book is a people, Zion the fistfruits, The “Joy of the Whole Earth” ~ LOVE GOD ~ LOVE MAN ~

    p.s. And I’m truly greatful for being able to read “your book” (the living epistle known and read of all men in this age and ages to come) (i.e. ~ http://www.whatgoddoes.com or any other “time will tell” published hardcover or paperback, video…), ~ your testimony in Him covered by His Blood.

  • Lanny A. Eichert August 20, 2012 at 4:44 am

    What is this “blotting out” business? οὐ μὴ ἐξαλείψω is emphatic by οὐ μὴ and furthered by “but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels” to offer absloute assurance to the overcoming suffering saints that Christ is without any reserve excitedly anticipating confessing their names. There is not even a hint that their names could possibly be blotted out of the Book. Have you considered comparing 3: 5 with 22: 19 where “his part” not “his name” is declared. Name then takes on the significance of all his overcomer deeds confessed by Christ and not minimized in any respect. Here {3: 5} we have Christ’s assurance that He will not omit any detail {never blot out} in His confessions of the overcomer. All genuine born again believers are overcomers in Christ. {1 John 5: 4}

    *You didn’t explain any simbols and images contained in these few words resulting in some other meaning. So HOW are my comments a mistranslation?

    whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world
    whosoever was not found written in the book of life

    17: 8 states peoples’ names omitted from the beginning of the world.
    20: 15 states peoples’ names omitted for their damnation.

    Judged on where their names are {books} and are not {Book of Life}.
    Thrown in the Lake of Fire AFTER being judged “not in the Book of Life.”

    God reconciled His check register. They were registered by God as unbelievers from the beginning long before they were begotten. They were omitted from the Lamb’s Book of Life and by that omission God declared He does not save everybody. 17: 8 proves it.

    • admin August 20, 2012 at 10:15 am

      Lanny, I’m not sure how you suckered me into yet another Lake of Fire debate. You’re pretty good at baiting people 🙂 Some day, that quality will serve you well, when you become a fisher of humanity who doesn’t use dynamite as bait, scaring all the fish away…

      You believe (correct me if I’m wrong) the symbolism is as follows:
      Book of Life = God’s list of who does NOT spend eternity in the Lake of Fire
      Names not written in the Book of Life = People who spend eternity in the Lake of Fire
      Names omitted from the beginning of the world = Before they were created, God decided there was never any chance of these people ever having a destiny other than eternity in the Lake of Fire
      Thrown into the Lake of Fire AFTER being judged = a point of no return, a final destiny

      I believe the symbolism is as you say with a couple of minor exceptions:
      Book of Life = God’s list of who He elected (from the foundation of the world) to be ministers of reconciliation
      Names not written in the Book of Life = People who are “injured” or “offended” by the Lake of Fire
      Names omitted from the beginning of the world = Before they were created, God decided that these people were vessels made for destruction, which is the opposite of being a minister of reconciliation (“destruction” = 684 /apṓleia “perdition” does not imply “annihilation”, see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, “cut off”, but instead “loss of well-being” rather than being from Vine’s Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11).
      Thrown into the Lake of Fire AFTER being judged = thrown into the Lake of Fire after being judged, nothing more, nothing less

      Now, regarding “blotting out,” is anyone’s name EVER blotted out for any reason?

    • Lanny A. Eichert August 20, 2012 at 1:44 pm

      Anyone’s name EVER blotted out for any reason? “There is not even a hint that their names could possibly be blotted out of the Book.”

      Names not written in the Book of Life = People who are “injured” or “offended” by the Lake of Fire
      Alice, that’s your ADDITION to the Scriptures: there is no such class of people “injured” or “offended” by the Lake of Fire. You are inventing what isn’t there. There are only those “not injured” or “not offended” to use your words; and they’re are in the Book. You are looking for a way to deny eternal torment and it is so very obvious.

      Names omitted from the beginning of the world = Before they were created, God decided that these people were vessels made for destruction, which is the opposite of being a minister of reconciliation
      Alice, another fabrication because all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation {2 Corinthians 5: 18} applies to every born-again Christian believer without exception. You fabricate your own definition not given in the literal perfect Holy Bible evidencing your intentions to eliminate eternal torment.

      You haven’t defined any symbolism yet either. The Book of Life is a literal ledger of the names of God’s saints.

      Your precious universalism falls on your constant ridiculous ADDITIONS to the Holy Bible and is so proven obviously false.

      Alice, give up your additions and believe 17: 8 proves eternal torment: that God never intended to save everybody, but that His intent is to save “the few” and destroy “the many” just as Jesus indicated in Matthew 7: 13 & 14. If you’re going to be saved you must trust Jesus’ words thoroughly.

      • admin August 21, 2012 at 1:32 am

        You write, “Alice, that’s your ADDITION to the Scriptures: there is no such class of people ‘injured’ or ‘offended’ by the Lake of Fire. You are inventing what isn’t there. There are only those ‘not injured’ or ‘not offended’ to use your words; and they’re are in the Book.”

        You are right. Revelation 2:11 only talks about the overcomers not being hurt by the second death. It doesn’t say anything about those who are not included in the group called “overcomers.” I did assume that if there are a group of people told that they will NOT have a negative experience in the second death, that anyone not included in this group WOULD have a negative experience. I also assumed that you would agree with the idea that the second death feels like (to the person who experiences it having died in sin) a negative experience. Are you saying that people who experience the second death do not have a negative experience? Are you suggesting that those who experience the second death are not hurt by it? Clearly the overcomers are exempt, but what about everyone else? Are you having second thoughts about the nature of second death?

        I asked if anyone’s name is EVER blotted out of the book. You answered, “There is not even a hint that their names could possibly be blotted out of the Book.” If what you say is true, then please explain your understanding of the words “blotted out” of the book. What do those words mean, to you?

      • Lanny A. Eichert August 21, 2012 at 5:15 am

        Alice, I explained “blotted out” August 20, 2012 at 4:44 am above from which I also requoted “There is not even a hint that their names could possibly be blotted out of the Book.”

        What attends the Second Death Lake of Fire experience? And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. {Matthew 13: 42} Sounds like an unchangeable negative experience for all unbelievers after they have been judged as also {REvelation 14: 10 & 11} The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone … and they have no rest day nor night.

        Would it help to change “reconcilers” to “ministers of reconciliation”?
        Before they were created, God decided that these people were NOT ministers of reconciliation {were vessels made for destruction}; since all God’s saints are ministers of reconciliation {2 Corinthians 5: 18} and you say those omitted are not ministers of reconciliation, then God decided they’d not be ministers of reconciliation and they can never be saved because God decided they are not ministers of reconciliation. You , by your own statement, proved God decided not to save everybody disproving your own universalism. Don’t you see that if God decided you ARE NOT a minister of reconciliation then God decided not to save you, because only saved people are ministers of reconciliation?

      • Lanny A. Eichert August 21, 2012 at 1:18 pm

        Alice, your statement {I did assume that if there are a group of people told that they will NOT have a negative experience in the second death} is also an Alice ADDITION that gets you into trouble. Your addition is assuming they experience the Second Death and that is NOT what the Revelation 2: 11 says, but what Alice purposely wants it to say.

        He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. {Revelation 2: 11}

        οὐ μὴ ἀδικηθῇ again is emphatic by οὐ μὴ, just as in 3: 5 not blot out and just as “There is not even a hint that their names could possibly be blotted out of the Book” so also “There is not even a hint that they could possibly be hurt by the Second Death.” I told you before: this is an assuring way of telling them there is no chance whatsoever of them being thrown into the Second Death Lake of Fire. It would be 100% the opposite of overcoming. It is nonsense to think OVERCOMERS could possibly be “thrown” into the Lake of Fire. They don’t even stand in the Final Judgment necessary BEFORE being thrown into the Lake of Fire, because Jesus bore their judgment for them on the CROSS. Only “the dead” stand before the Great White Throne, because “the dead” are all unbelievers. There is not a saint among “the dead” standing in judgment.

        Alice, when you don’t understand this and continue to insist overcomers experience the Second Death, then I know you haven’t the knowledge to believe Christ’s salvation wrought on the cross. You speak the words as if you understand, but it is obvious you don’t. Romans 6 & Galatians 2: 20 are NOT the Second Death, because Galatians 2: 20 is experienced by saints in THIS mortal life at conversion, while the Second Death is the AFTER-LIFE experience of all unbelievers.

        How is Romans 8: 1 {There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus} possible experientially in this life for God’s saints if they are to stand at the GWT in the Final Judgment and be thrown into the Lake of Fire? They are uncondemned the moment they believed and the moment they die and every moment in between. Since they are under no condemnation, why would they be judged: it would be a waste of God’s time and effort and He doesn’t waste His time or effort. No one even in our judicial system goes to court without there first being a suspicion of guilt. No condemnation means no suspicion of guilt of God’s saints. Therefore no saint stands at the GWT Judgment. Do you now understand “the dead” of the Final Judgment cannot include any believer? Therefore nobody judged in the Final Judgment has their name in the Book of Life; is that now evident to you? See, you allow yourself to be tripped up by your additional logic of assuming maybe the names of some of those judged will be found in the Book of Life. The Revelation 20: 15 says no such thing, only: whosoever was NOT found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Please pay attention to how faulty your logical assumptions are and why. The why being your desire to justify no eternal torment. Look, you’ve progressed to understand there is no such group specified in the Holy Bible as non-overcoming believers, so continue to the understanding of “the dead” as only the “spiritually” dead, meaning all unbelievers and only unbelievers in the Final Judgment.

    • Lanny A. Eichert August 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm

      Alice, if names omitted from the beginning of the world = Before they were created, God decided that these people were vessels made for destruction, which is the opposite of being a minister of reconciliation; since all God’s saints are reconcilers {2 Corinthians 5: 18} and you say those omitted are not reconcilers, then God decided they’d not be reconcilers and they can never be saved. You , by this statement, proved God decided not to save everybody disproving your own universalism. Don’t you see that?

      • admin August 21, 2012 at 12:43 am

        I don’t understand what you are saying. I read it three times. Dumb it down for me. I’m not being a smart ass. I really don’t know what you are saying.

    • Lanny A. Eichert August 21, 2012 at 6:06 am

      Alice, from He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death {Revelation 2: 11 and 20: 6} on such the second death hath no power; you had generated three ideas: #1 overcoming believers, #2 non-overcoming believers, and #3 remedially hurt unbelievers. At last you are now seeming to understand #2 is not Biblical and on #3 people “injured” or “offended” by the Lake of Fire you call a minor exception not realizing you agreed as I said they spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. By argeeing you also disproved your Barbie god saves every unbeliever after death.

      Alice, once they are IN the Second Death, there is no AFTER death, because the Second Death is eternal death. Unbelieving people are thrown into the Second Death Lake of Fire, the same place into which Death is thrown upon its defeat among the saints of God. Death is defeated among the saints of God when all of God’s saints are resurrected in their particular group order. See, there’s chronology again. God has order in redemption/reconciliation.

      Alice, he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet is descriptive of {the Millennium} mortal human life before the Final Judgment. The Final Judgment is when all enemies are “under”. Christ’s reign in the New Heaven and the New Earth is not a reign where He brings anything in subjection, because in the New all things are in subjection by virtue of having been made New. Remember even human beings {saints} are made “new” by the First Resurrection because of which they also entered the New Heaven and the New Earth, which is only made for saints.

  • Patrick Strickland August 20, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Alice that was another wonderful blog. And it stirred up in me how we are all responsible for every idle word we speak.

    Mat_12:36 ‘And I say to you, that every idle word that men may speak, they shall give for it a reckoning in a day of judgment;

    Now if a Christian Universalist is guilty before God of leading men astray then what words will He be judged for that will qualfy Him for Hell:

    1. Saying that God truly loves everyone, not only does God desire to Save ALL But He has the power to Save all.
    2. Saying That Jesus death at the cross truly applies to everyone just like scripture declares.
    3. Saying That with man this is impossible but with God nothing is impossible, when Jesus was asked who can be saved?
    4. Saying That God truly has a plan for all men to be fully restored, healed saved in every sense of the word. Yet each man will be saved in God’s determined order. Whether by accepting Him as their saviour now or through God’s purifying fire later; All will be salted with fire.
    5. Saying that God truly is the saviour of All men especially those that believe.
    6. Saying that God is not holding any man accountable for sin, because Jesus the Lamb of God really did take away the sin of the World
    7. Saying that Love will NEVER QUITS NOR FAILS.
    8. Saying that if Jesus, as a serpent lifted upon a pole, was lifted up at the cross then He not only has the power to “drag” all men to look, but that everyone who sees Him will be saved, just like all who looked at the brass serpent in Moses day were saved and healed from the poisonous snake bites.
    9. Saying that God is raising up a firstfruits who are being conformed fully into the image of His son and when they become manfested then they “the Sons of God” will bring all creation into the same liberty of the glory that they possess.
    10. Saying that in Adam all die, but that in Christ All shall live.
    11. Saying that God’s ultimate purpose will be fulfilled by gathering All together into one into Christ. Eph 1:10
    12. Saying that God truly is reconciling All into Christ Col 1:20
    13. That God has sworn and will not repent that every knee will bow and every tongue swear an oath and ONE shall say in Him they have righteousness and strength: and in the new testament this equates to saying that Jesus Christ is Lord ‘into’ the glory. (Note No one can call Him Lord but he that is in the Holy Spirit 1 cor 12:3) Remember number 11 God is gathering all into one who is the one speaking? it is all who are gathered into Chirst.
    14. Saying that God truly is working All in All until He fills All in All.
    15. Saying That the gospel truly is glad tidings of GREAT JOY to ALL Men!
    16. Saying that God truly judges all of us righteously, and gives us penlties that actually fit the crime. and that through Him doing right we shall all learn righteousness.
    17. Saying that God will truly wipe away all tears.

    Now what idle words will those who believe in Eternal tormet face if they are wrong?

    1. Saying that God really did not love the whole world, only those wise enough to chose christ, or predetermined by God to be saved the rest He is going to burn forever.
    2. Saying that Jesus death at the cross really does not apply to everyone.
    3. Saying that God does not want to save all men, or that He lacks the power to save all men.
    4. Saying that with mans free will choice he can choose salvation. and that because of man’s free will it is impossible for God to save all, because God will not go against it.
    5. Saying that God is the saviour of only those who believe.
    6. Saying that Jesus really did not take away the sin of the world, only the sin of those who choose right while they live, or who are chosen of God to accept Him in this lifetime.
    7. Saying that God is not holding you accountable for the sins you do but if you die without jesus being your saviour then he will hold you accountable for all of your sins, and judge you accordingly.
    8. Saying that Love, which is God, quits when we die and He fails to accomplish what He wants.
    9. Saying that Jesus is lightly impelling all men: you know man has a free will so he can chose to resist his drawing power to come to Him and look but not all who look will be saved. If you look at him after you die then it is straight to hell with you, the healing saving power is no longer avaliable.
    10. Saying that God’s purpose of bring all creation into the same glory that the sons of God Have is never going to happen since God is too busy roasting ‘most” of creation.
    11. Saying that in Adam all die but only those who accept Jesus during their lifetime will get to live.
    12. For saying that All does not really mean All.
    13. For saying that God’s ultimate purpose will not be accomplished of gathering all Into Christ.
    14. For saying that God has to resort to unending torture to get a confession that Jesus is Lord out of most of creation.
    15. For saying that God is really not working All in all so that He can only be all in the few who accept Him as saviour.
    16. For saying that the gospel they preach is glad tiding of great joy to all men yet most are burning in Hell forever and those who truly loved their lost loved ones will be lobotomized by God so that they can not have sorrow in heaven.
    17. Saying that it is a righteous judgemnt for God to judge someone who only lied once in his life before He died moments after reaching the age of accountability will suffer the same unending eternal judement of fire as a old aged multiple murder. What is the difference between few stripes and many stripes if they are eternal stripes? And in Hell they shall never learn righteousness.
    18. Saying that He is the saviour of the whole world but not really believeing that He will save the whole world.
    19. For saying to the world that God in nothing but a petulant Father who demnds us to love him and our fellow man or else.
    20. For saying that God demands us to forgive our enemies but god will not forgive His enemies.

    Grace and peace Patrick

    • admin August 21, 2012 at 12:46 am

      To sum up what you said in a sentence, we are guilty of “thinking too highly of God.” Is that even possible, to think TOO HIGHLY of God?

      • Patrick Strickland August 25, 2012 at 2:57 pm

        Lol If it is a sin to think more highly of Him then we ought then Praise God I am guilty.
        So do you think that is a burn in Hell forever offence? There are many in religion who would think it is, but honestly God does not think that way.

        Grace and Peace Patrick

  • Lanny A. Eichert August 22, 2012 at 12:59 am

    Alice, I really wish you’d listen to a number of the conversion stories on http://www.unshackled.org because it seems to me you are missing what salvation really means. Somehow I think you miss how totally completely a believer is saved. The common thread of the stories is the amazing relief conversion brings at the very moment of conversion. That relief is the actual forgiveness of all sins sensed by the convert, the very realization of the NO condemnation of Romans 8:1 even though the convert may not have ever set his eyes on Romans 8: 1 yet.

    The convert has forgiveness of sins from the moment he begins to believe Jesus. His sins, all of them, past, present, and future are all forgiven, divorced {put away} from him so he carries them no more, nor can they condemn him any more. When sins are forgiven they are purged from the individual, washed away. God doesn’t forgive only some of the believer’s sins, He forgives all of the believer’s sins. The believer is purged of all of his sins: he is purified completely the moment he believes. The moment he believes he is as pure as God is and therefore fit for communion with God. He has the holiness necessary to “see” God and commune with God.

    Why the man who was born blind was so excited about Jesus {John 9} is because his mind and life were unshackled from sin {forgiveness}. Watch the programs @ http://www.unshackled.org

    • admin August 22, 2012 at 10:08 pm

      I do have a different understanding of sin now than I did when I wrote that prayer.

      • Lanny A. Eichert August 23, 2012 at 4:25 pm

        My focus above is forgiveness of sins, not the nature of sin. You need a different understanding of God’s forgiveness, Alice.

        What is the source of this notion of yours common among your friends that everybody goes through the fire, even saints? Did you get it from Rob Bell? Who first showed you the little hints of it? Or are you the prophetess that developed it?

        If you really now see and are now convinced that there are no believers that are not overcomers, then you must deny everybody goes through the fire.

        For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. {1 John 5: 4}

        If you really now see and are now convinced that all believers are overcomers without exception, then you must discard your remedial purifying second death lake of fire because it serves no remedial purifying purpose for any of the saints. Once you have discarded it, now there’s room for the real Second Death Lake of Fire to be the eternal abode of the damned in eternal torment, as is true.

        Will you follow through or are you going to return to your heresy? How will you proceed since all saints are overcomers and the perfect literal Holy Bible reveals no such group as believers who are not overcomers?

        • admin August 24, 2012 at 8:28 am

          The text is addressed to a group of believers and it specifies the “overcomers” from that group, which implies that not all of them are overcomers. Implication isn’t necessarily proof, so maybe you are right and maybe I am right. It all depends in WHEN 1 John 5:4 takes place. You assume a certain chronology that demands 1 John 5:4 happens for all believers BEFORE the Lake of Fire. I don’t. I would never deny that all believers become overcomers (in the sense of overcoming the “world”). I just don’t assume that it will happen for every believer all at once or by a certain time. But the one thing that is clear is that this group called “overcomers” (be it all or some believers) is not injured/offended by the second death. The second death is clearly defined as “death and Hades thrown into the Lake of Fire”.

          I don’t see how you make the leap from what I am have just mentioned to the ideas that I “must deny everybody goes through the fire” or that I “must discard [my] remedial purifying second death because it serves no remedial purifying purpose for any of the saints.” You are only looking at one book in the New Testament and letting your interpretation of it determine the meaning of the rest of the collection, and not only that, but you are insisting that I should do the same. Well I won’t. You are on your own with that approach to scripture interpretation.

          • Lanny A. Eichert August 25, 2012 at 6:36 pm

            Alice, you stated, It all depends in WHEN 1 John 5:4 takes place. You assume a certain chronology that demands 1 John 5:4 happens for all believers BEFORE the Lake of Fire. I don’t. I would never deny that all believers become overcomers (in the sense of overcoming the “world”).

            How, Alice, can you have people begin overcoming the “world” while they are in the Lake of Fire after the Final Judgment since the “world” will be no more? There will be no “world” to overcome.

            • admin August 26, 2012 at 2:09 am

              I guess that depends on how one defines “the world”.

        • Lanny A. Eichert August 24, 2012 at 10:36 am

          Alice, why are you so quick to run to the Greek text of the Scriptures except this one? I expected you to consult the Greek especially on this one and you disappointed me.

          For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. {1 John 5: 4}

          ὅτι πᾶν τὸ γεγεννημένον ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ νικᾷ τὸν κόσμον καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ νίκη ἡ νικήσασα τὸν κόσμον, ἡ πίστις ἡμῶν

          The first overcometh νικᾷ is present active indicative, Alice, meaning real action in the present time.

          The second overcometh is an Aorist active participle meaning completed final action.

          Humanly speaking the Apostle John wrote both 1, 2, & 3 John and the Revelation close together chronologically so there should be not be a problem that his words had advanced to a different meaning. John has only a black – white way of viewing the Christian life experience and he clearly views it as an overall victorious experience in this mortality based on Christ’s accomplished victory over the death that sin brought to the human race. Alice, John says in both 1 John and the Revelation that the born again person {Christian} is always victorious from the moment he first believed through his entire earthly experience. 1 John 5: 4 occurs continuously BEFORE PHYSICAL DEATH for God’s saints.

          Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. {Romans 8: 37}

          “More than conquerors” ὑπερνικῶμεν is present active indicative meaning real action in the present time, the same as 1 John 5: 4, Alice, so John and Paul both view the born again believer as victors always; and Paul is ultra emphatic prefixing “nike” with “huper” or our hyper: continuously hyper-conquering.

          Even the perserverance of the saints, eternal security, once saved always saved doctrine demands the Christian life is always an overcoming life.

          Alice, it is no leap that you must abandon “everybody goes through the fire” once you KNOW and are CONVINCED that all of God’s saints are “overcomers” because it is a 100% contradiction to overcoming and it serves no purpose and it 100% contradicts total forgiveness of sins and makes the saint stand in judgment before being “thrown” into the Lake of Fire without any sins to purge. I’ve tried to explain all of that to you many times now even using our judicial system illustrating NOBODY goes to court without a suspicion of guilt and the saint is without suspicion of guilt according to the “no condemnation” statement of Romans 8: 1 meaning he does NOT stand before the Great White Throne Final Judgment which preceeds everybody who is “thrown” into the Lake of Fire. Nobody can get into the Lake of Fire without FIRST being judged at the GWT Final Judgment. Absolutely NO saint is ever at the GWT Final Judgment because Jesus was judged in his place at the cross bringing forgiveness and “no condemnation” to the saint.

          Who shall lay ANY THING to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. {Romans 8: 33}

          You wrote, “Well I won’t.” What won’t you do? Be convinced every saint without exception is an overcomer completely from conversion through all his life and in physical death?

          • admin August 26, 2012 at 2:26 am

            I can certainly understand how you see things the way you do, based on the scriptures you quote. It is refreshing to know that there are some positive ideas in Lanny, not just condemnation and bad news. However, there are plenty of scriptures that communicate the idea that even believers will have their works tested. And look at the servant in Luke 12:

            “…the lord of that servant will come in a day in which he doth not look for [him], and in an hour that he doth not know, and will cut him off, and his portion with the unfaithful he will appoint. And that servant, who having known his lord’s will, and not having prepared, nor having gone according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes, and he who, not having known, and having done things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few; and to every one to whom much was given, much shall be required from him; and to whom they did commit much, more abundantly they will ask of him. Fire I came to cast to the earth, and what will I if already it was kindled? but I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how am I pressed till it may be completed!”

            Especially telling are the words “to every one to whom much was given, much shall be required from him” – who has been given much (spiritually) in this world, if not believers who were/are “having known the lord’s will”? and the words “Fire I came to cast to the earth” and Jesus speaking of His death and resurrection as a baptism. We all are baptized in the fire, Lanny.

        • Lanny A. Eichert August 25, 2012 at 3:53 pm

          Alice, 1 John 5: 4 isn’t standing alone, also verse 5 along with the Revelation 2: 11 overcoming are all present tense active verb forms meaning continuous action in the present time. The overcoming is happening in this life continuously. 1 John 2: 13, 14 and 4: 4 are all perfect tense verb forms of the same Greek word, overcame, meaning past completed action carrying its result into the continuing present time meaning they have overcome and continue to be overcomers.

          Then there is also John 16: 33 also a perfect active indicative verb that Jesus Christ’s overcoming is a past completed action carring its result into the ever continuing present time. Must I remind you that whosoever is born of God, the born again Christian, is in Christ, an often repeated term in the New Testament. Since he is in Christ, and Christ has overcome, then how can the Christian ever NOT be an overcomer? God’s saint is always an overcomer because he is inside Christ.

          Jesus said, “be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” Christian joy comes from being in Christ the Overcomer.

          Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. {2 Corinthians 2: 14} ALWAYS TRIUMPHING, another present active verb form of continuous action in present time: the experience of the Apostle Paul and his evangelistic team as also all Christians who are true ones.

          Alice, your words seem to betray you and I’ve often tried to tell you something just doesn’t seem right about your christian view, and that’s why I just avoid calling you one.

          • admin August 26, 2012 at 2:13 am

            It’s funny (in a sad way) how you claim triumph for the believer, yet according to your theology, believers fail miserably at the rest of the verse: “maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place” – an evangelism that results in most of the evangelized in eternal torment in hell. You can’t have it both ways, Lanny.

            • Lanny A. Eichert August 26, 2012 at 5:16 am

              Hyperbole, dear Alice, or must “in every place” mean the Americas also evangelized by Paul? Be sensible.

              The context of your Luke 12 quote is the Second Advent of Christ {compare Luke 12: 44 with Matthew 25: 34} when He comes as Messianic King of the Jews to rule on this earth for a thousand years in His Kingdom; not the Final Judgment of all unbelievers, nor the judgment of the saints’ ministerial works. You fail to rightly divide the Word of God again. Verse 49 begins a new paragraph and new subject.

              Your inability to define “the world” is a dodge and you know it. The term is defined by the context and there is no kosmos in the Lake of Fire which is outer darkness. There is no overcoming possible there, Alice, so admit it.

              Admit also all of God’s saints are always overcomers as says the Holy Scriptures. Admit there is no necessary remedial purging and purifying lake of fire for God’s saints after physical death. Admit the Second Death Lake of Fire serves no purpose to the saints. Confess that no saint ever goes into the Lake of Fire, Alice. Then confess the Second Death Lake of Fire is the eternal abode of the damned in eternal torment as prepared by God for the devil and his angels according to Matthew 25: 41. Finally confess God saves only His Elect and no one else: all others eternally perish for sins: the Second Death.

              I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. {John 8: 24} the Second Death

              • admin August 26, 2012 at 9:19 pm

                “kosmos” is used in different ways in scripture – it doesn’t always refer to the geological globe of the earth

              • admin August 26, 2012 at 9:22 pm

                also, I wasn’t reading literally the “every place” part, but the “maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us”

          • Patrick Strickland August 26, 2012 at 5:11 pm

            Lonny I would agree that Christ has overcome the world but not all christians who claim to be in Him have overcome like He did because they are not really in him yet like you think. If they were truly in him then all things in their lives would be new not just a few things.

            2Co 5:17 KJV Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, ALL THINGS are become new.

            Now it is evident from what most preachers are preaching that not all things have become new. Only some things have become new. Notice scripture did not say have become new but ARE new. Most christians are still struggling with sin, If they were truly in Him they could not sin, because in Him is no sin.

            1Jn 3:5-14 RYLT-NT and you have known that he was manifested that our sins he may take away, and SIN IS NOT IN HIM; (6) every one who is REMAINING IN HIM DOES NOT SIN; every one who is sinning, has not seen him, nor known him. (7) Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous, (8) he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil does sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil; (9) every one who has been begotten of God, SIN HE DOES NOT, because his seed in him does remain, and HE IS NOT ABLE TO SIN, because of God he has been begotten. (10) In this manifest are the children of God, and the children of the devil; every one who is not doing righteousness, is not of God, and he who is not loving his brother, (11) because this is the message that you did hear from the beginning, that we may love one another, (12) not as Cain — of the evil one he was, and he did slay his brother, and therefore did he slay him? because his works were evil, and those of his brother righteous. (13) Do not wonder, my brethren, if the world does hate you; (14) we — we have known that we have passed out of the death to the life, because we love the brethren; he who is not loving the brother does remain in the death.

            1Jn 5:18 RYLT-NT We have known that every one who has been begotten of God DOES NOT SIN, but he who was begotten of God does keep himself, and the evil one does not touch him;

            If We are truly born from above with an incorruptible seed and that seed which is Christ cannot sin, it literally reads does not have the power, does not have the ability to sin anymore, then we would not have the ability to sin. The churches are filled with men and women who are struggling with sin because they truly are not begotten in Christ like they think they are. They have not really been born from above with an incorruptible seed that does not have the ability to sin. They are not overcomers, just because they think they are in Christ. They really must know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are in Christ. Before they can become overcomers. That which is born of God can only do one thing and that is walk like Jesus did and that is to seek the glory which comes only from the Father in all things. The churches are filled with men and women seeking to build up something in the name of the Lord that will give them glory from other men, and are not seeking only the glory that comes from the Father.

            Now since Christ has overcome death and death has no more dominion over Him, then why would death have dominion over those in Him if we have truly passed out of death into life as I John 3:14 states? If being in Christ like you say makes you an overcomer then please tell me why most of the church is not overcoming sin sickness lack and even death? The truth is that the traditions of men men we have accepted as truth has blinded us to the real truth. And because of the lies that the traditions of men have taught us which we have believed; we have not apprehended the true promises of God through faith to the point that all enemies are placed under our feet, the churches feet which in reality make up the body of Christ. The head has overcome all of His enemies but the rest of the body must learn to overcome all enemies by relying upon and apprehending His victory as their own, until all enemies are placed under our feet and the last enemy that shall be placed under our feet shall be death itself.

            Think about it. I mean really think about it. How can you or any member of the church be called an overcomer if you or they don’t overcome totally like Jesus did?

            Grace and peace Patrick

          • Lanny A. Eichert August 26, 2012 at 11:39 pm

            Patrick, your two posts seek to make every human being ever born from Adam born again Christians if not now some time eventually whether in this life or the next. As with Alice, there is no overcoming after the Great White Throne Final Judgment because there will no longer be a world {kosmos} to overcome since all things will have been made “new” in conformity with God with the exception of the contents of the Second Death Lake of Fire, God’s trash in God’s trash bin. Don’t you see that if you were to think God’s trash also is made new the same time God makes the heaven and the earth new, the Lake of Fire has no useful life and purpose; and there is practically no significant punishment for sinners, because God’s “new” is in purity and subjection to Himself. Sinners no sooner get thrown into your lake of fire then they get immediately made new, which means they get made good, and all of them at the same time, and forcefully. Death and hades also are made new and good as your god. Your lake of fire also becomes new and good. That’s insanity, what you propose.

            Pay attention Alice: there will be NOTHING external to overcome. The only thing left to overcome is their own internal souls apart from external influence. There will be no correcting their misunderstandings and ignorances.

            • Patrick Strickland August 30, 2012 at 2:46 pm

              Dear Lonny

              Thank you for taking the time to answer. I appreciate it but you fail to truly understand what is being talked about from either Alice’s or my view.

              Lonny has said:
              Patrick, your two posts seek to make every human being ever born from Adam born again Christians if not now some time eventually whether in this life or the next.

              Yep what you just said is absolutely true. Paul said

              1Ti 4:9-11 KJV This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. (10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (11) These things command and teach.

              Ask yourself How can God be the Saviour of ALL men especially, but most of all of those that believe, if ALL men who don’t believe are not saved but tortured in fire for all of eternity? How are they saved? How then can Paul claim God is the Saviour of ALL Men if He does not really save all men? Does this not make paul a liar? And since God inspired Him to write that scripture then does that make God a liar?

              We all were created in Christ before the foundation of the world. We all existed in him till we all came out of him through birth of the flesh man into this Adamic dream, each peson in their own appointed time. We now all think that we are separated from the divine life. When we entered into this world we all completely forgot who we are and where we truly originated from. We are spirit. Our true identity is spirit. But since we have forgotten what we are and the true origins of our life, we now think that we are nothing more then just mortal flesh which has a soul. And as such we think our origin is found in the fall of Adam, and in the genetic structure, that was passed on to us from our parents, and that we did not exist before we were born. Our birth in the flesh is not our origin, but for most believe it is in fact what we believe to be true; The truth is we all believe it is this way; religion even teaches it this way, and we believe it to be that way until God begins to reveal the truth to us by His spirit. We need to wake up from our Adamic dream. When we wake up we will wake up to righteousness and will be in His image, and when we wake we shall be given light from Christ.

              Psa 17:15 KJV As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
              1Co 15:34 KJV Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
              Eph 5:14 KJV Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

              Finally in the end, the word end in scripture is defined as the goal set out to achieve and accomplish, God is going to reconcile everything into Himself and He is going to gather back into Christ all that came out of Him. Col 1:20 Eph 1:10

              Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things into himself; by him, I say, whether they be things upon earth, or things in heaven.
              Eph 1:7-11 KJV In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; (8) Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; (9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: (10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER IN ONE ALL THINGS IN CHRIST both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

              THIS IS GOD’S GOAL THIS IS WHAT HE IS STRIVING TO BRING ABOUT.

              Dear sir we all need to have revelation of the spirit on what He is striving to accomplish in creation. Without a revelation of what He is actively working for we will always come to the wrong conclusion. We need to do whatever it takes to seek God. If we need to fast and pray then we need to fast and pray. If we need to turn off our TVs, phones I pads, computers then do it. We all need to do whatever it takes to come to the place where we enter into the presence of The Father and He becomes the one who is teaching us His word. We all need God to teach us what he meant by what was written and not listen to the opinions of mens tradition which make the word of God of none effect. Without God teaching us what His ultimate goal is for all men we will accept the traditions of men as a reality and awake to eternal shame.

              grace and peace Patrick

          • Lanny A. Eichert August 27, 2012 at 12:21 am

            Alice, Patrick, Stephen, how do you ignore And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity {Matthew 7: 23} Jesus said, NEVER knew you. No foundation of Christ in every person, none! I will also DENY, Jesus said {Matthew 10: 33} But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

            whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world {Revelation 17: 8} shows INTENT, that God never chose to save everybody, especially these that weren’t even born when this text was given to John to write at least four thousand years after the foundation of the world: a 4,000 year intent and God doesn’t change.

            • Lanny A. Eichert August 27, 2012 at 12:52 am

              Really now, can Jesus save some one He denies before His Father?

              How can Jesus save some one He doesn’t even know?

              How can Jesus save some one He prophetically told His Father by prayer that He lost and didn’t keep in His Father’s name? {John 17: 12}

              How can Jesus Who is same yesterday, and to day, and for ever save some ones whose name He intentially omitted from the Book of Life since the foundation of the world? {Hebrews 13: 8 & Revelation 17: 8}

              • admin August 28, 2012 at 10:39 pm

                Yes.
                Yes.
                Yes.
                The same way He saved you.

                • Lanny A. Eichert August 29, 2012 at 12:03 am

                  Your god is a fourfold terrific liar, dear Alice, when he denies them before his father, when he says he never knew them, when he prophetically prayed Judas is lost, when he omitted their names from the Book of Life for over 4,000 years.

                  You are unreasonable to think God is Liar.

              • Patrick Strickland August 30, 2012 at 4:37 pm

                These are all great questions Lonny, and are easy to answer. In fact if you go back and check the scriptures and all of my posts you know that I believe there are two men in every man the old man and the new man, In the unbeliever the new man is still only in the seed form, and man is not aware it is there at all, and the seed has not germinated and brought Christ to birth in them. You do realize Christ has to be birthed in each of us don’t you?

                Gal 4:19 KJV My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

                The new man was actually created in Christ long before there was any visible universe. The old man did not exist until its birth in the flesh. The New man is the seed of wheat which is first planted. It is the light, the life that lighteth everyman that came into the world.. The seed must die in the ground before it can begin to grow in the earth of our flesh. We must recognize that Jesus death is our death before Christ can begin to grow in us.

                Joh 12:23-26 KJV And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. (24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. (25) He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. (26) If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

                The old man is the tare the wicked, the son of perdition, The one who will not serve God, the tare we have in this world planted by God’s enemy and will grow with the wheat till harvest time then the tare will be gathered first and burned this is how the tare is lost. The son of perdition is going to be destroyed by the brightness of His coming in His saints when He comes to be glorified in His saints. The wheat the righteous will be gathered into God’s barn and will shine as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Without this understanding then you cannot see that it is the wicked nature in us that God does not know does not recognize and denies it’s right to enter into the kingdom of God it is this nature, this character, which is what the word name means that was not written in God’s book of life from the beginning. God’s book of Life is nothing less then Christ the one who gives us life who is growing up in us as our life.

                Men who love the old man and will not deny it as the source of their life will lose the life they think they have. Men who deny, put off the old man and put on Christ as their life will inherit eternal life. But remember there are two growing in each man.

                Grace and peace Patrick

            • Patrick Strickland August 30, 2012 at 3:44 pm

              No dear sir i would have tohumbly disagree it does not show intent that God never chose to save everybody. There are many scriptures that declare it is God’s intent to save everyone. Not only is this good and acceptable in the sight of God but it is faithful saying and is worthy of all acceptance from us as believers. Why would God’s will of saving All be described with those adjectives god acceptable faithful saying if it was not so?

              1Ti 4:9-11 KJV This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. (10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (11) These things command and teach.

              John stated that we should pray according to His will. And if we do we shall have what we prayed for this is a guarantee that God will give us what we pray for as long as it is according to His will. By this we have confidence in God when He answers our prayers.

              1Jn 5:14-15 KJV And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: (15) And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

              Now we are told emphatically to pray that all men to be saved and are in formed in the same verse it is God’ s will for them all to be saved.

              1Ti 2:1-6 KJV I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; (2) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. (3) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; (4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

              Are you praying in faith for the will of God to be done in the earth so that all men will be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth as God has willed. Or is the tradition of men concerning the lake of fire destroying your confidence and faith in God answering your prayer so that you cannot see God’s will actually becoming accomplished in all?

              2Pe 3:9 KJV The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

              Not only is it his intent and will but scripture declares that no man can stop Him from doing His will.

              Dan_4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

              No it is your misunderstanding of His will that puts that scripture at variance in your mind with Gods true stated in scripture intent and will. God is not saying they are not going to be saved He is informing those who are claiming to be serving Him that they shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven unless they do His will, These are men and women who call themselves christians, who are not serving God by His spirit who have not allowed the seed in them which is Christ to die and grow up. The seed has never been allowed to germinate. Christ has never been birthed and formed in them let alone grow into maturity. They have relied upon their own flesh, their old man to serve God. They have relied upon their own interpretations of what they think scripture says to serve God. They have never heard His precious voice nor have they ever been led by His spirit. They do not know Him and are not doing His will but they know all about him from their study of scripture and from what other men have taught them to understand by the power of their own minds. They have not put off the old man and put on christ so that they might Serve the living God who is the saviour of all men especially those that believe. Only those who do the will of God will be able to enter into the Kingdom of God.

              May God grant all men understanding of salvation and that they may see and come into truth which is Christ who said I am the way the truth and the Life…

              Grace and Peace Patrick

  • Lanny A. Eichert August 24, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Listen to true life stories of HYPER-OVERCOMERS.
    Listen to the programs @ http://www.unshackled.org

  • […] Pines.  Here are the links for the first blog, the second blog, the third blog, and the fourth blog.  This blog series is inspired by a sermon called “Barbie God” by Pastor Scott […]

  • Barry Kearns August 30, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    To see the universal salvation of all through Jesus as “doctrine”
    as optional is like saying God is just one of many gods.It is that serious once comprehended.
    Father God sent His only begotten Son to save the world.He is the Saviour
    of the world John 4:38=42 1 John 2:2.
    If one had been sent that did not bear witness of Gods intent 1John4:14 there may
    not have been the same level of accountability.If the message was unclear
    or not given in Gods timing?……..I am trying to be kind..
    Things have entered a new phase.No longer is God winking at those who
    reject the Son as Saviour while claiming He is their personal Saviour.
    That self interest above the desire of the Father 1Tim4:10 is being revealed and there are many who will smart under its correction.
    Not everywhere naturally but sufficient to the Gospel being preached to the lost
    the “untouchables”,the Father heart of God being made known in Christ just as it was
    the great love of early NT Christianity.Father was everywhere in the church for a full 400 years or more.These people loved “Father” and “Son”.
    Let those who have eyes to see comprehend
    .Instead of turning on someone who faithfully and in exuberance tells of the Fathers universal love for all His creation and the Good News of their redemption in Christ[ be it worked out now or in an age to come even through the road of the “lake of fire” the waters of correction where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth ]why not shout the Good News from the rooftops.
    Many it seems are those who don’t even recognise the true God as the perfect Father and in reality the father of all.[,our flesh and blood children in a sense only being given to us on loan].And yet can any one of us contemplate for a moment them suffering for eternity in hell knowing full well Jesus death and resurrection on the cross was for them as well as everyone.
    That same Father God has sent a servant amongst you.
    What is done is done but there is still time to learn from it all.
    Please do not walk away empty handed,but think on it.Maybe not today nor even tomorrow but know that “a word”has been given you from the mercy and kindness of God.
    God bless you all in your walk with Him.

  • Barry Kearns August 31, 2012 at 8:20 am

    A witness has been given.Alice shake off the dust
    from that place and move on to the next.
    They are happy with their own answers .
    It is a sad day when people claim to be believers but clearly reject Jesus
    as the only begotten Son of God as the Saviour of the world.
    Their place may well be in the lake of fire[ and thankfully it is not
    what they preach it is]where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth;a palpable anger with God Himself that He is not at all like who they say He is.Their proud unyielding
    arguments and hostility to Gods love for all people who are ultimately all His children
    is a lesson in itself that the proud and arrogant will not enter the Kingdom of God
    but reside outside its “walls’ because nothing impure will be allowed to enter.Rev 21:27
    These people are not yet believers.They may study the bible
    lead services have the trappings of religion but sadly they.. do not identify with
    the desires of our Father in heaven.1 Tim 4:10
    There is no other answer to it but that they do not believe
    Jesus christ is the Saviour of all.That this is not yet their time to believe
    is evident.May God bless you Alice to faithfully serve Him wherever He takes you.

    • admin August 31, 2012 at 4:22 pm

      Oh, I’ve shaken the dust and moved on, trust me. But I also know that there are some starving sheep from there who still read my blog (but don’t tell anyone they do, as far as I know). Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.” So I’m on to my next Kingdom assignment, but I haven’t forgotten about the sheep.

  • Barry Kearns August 31, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Beautiful Alice .

  • Post a comment

    Threaded commenting powered by interconnect/it code.