David Will Live Again

David Will Live Again

I am very honored to welcome guest blogger, Louis Soto to www.whatgoddoes.com.  David’s view on theodicy (a spiritual/philosophical attempt to reconcile the idea that God is all-loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing with the very real presence of evil and suffering in the world) is simple, but profound, basically, “I don’t know.”  He holds on to hope but admits, “I only see through a glass darkly.”  I appreciate Louis’s honest, humble, straightforward manner, and his commitment to telling the story of how losing his son caused him to reexamine traditional beliefs about God’s intentions toward humanity.  His experience is so much more than the churchy word “theodicy,” so much more than just a blog in a blog series.  That’s why I say I am honored that he has taken the time to write a blog for this series, based on Thomas G. Long’s book, What Shall We Say?: Evil, Suffering, and the Crisis of Faith.  

Here are the other blogs in this series:

Evil, Suffering, and the Crisis of Faith (Guest Blogger Mary Vanderplas)

The Shaking of the Foundations

The Impossible Chess Match

The Climax of All Misnomers

Road Hazards

The Soul’s Complaint

Awakening, by Asia Samson

Running a Thousand Miles for Freedom

(Be sure to check out Louis’s website at the end of this blog post.)

 

It’s been four years since I had to view my son’s lifeless body and put him in the ground.  In the following months reading the police and medical reports that described his death has created a vivid visual that has haunted me almost daily. Despite the many hours and shifts in mood and perspective every minute has been pinned to the backdrop of the deepest sorrow.  There have been many emotions; so much fear and despair in the first few days that have become months and now years.  I couldn’t find a reasonable explanation for why God had allowed this to happen, but thought that in His mercy He would allow me to understand.  I felt as if God had hidden Himself from me.  No one could explain how this could have happened, but certainly God knew and I felt that if He helped me to understand I could somehow get through this. The truth is that after years of pleading with God for that understanding He has remained silent. I do not know why David couldn’t be saved and why God did not prevent this.  David choked to death with incredible odds in his favor; a police officer at his side at the time of the incident and EMT and ambulance 20 feet away. It appeared that these people did everything they knew to do to save David, but tragically failed.  One of the EMT’s present told me that this should not have gone down this way and all he could think of is that there was a higher power controlling the outcome. This has to be the greatest of all sorrows.  Why would God cause us to love our children so and then take them away?

My other grave concern was what had become of David. Everyone told me he was in a better place; that he had gone home to be with the Lord.  While I wanted to believe this, common religion teaches that the probability of damnation far exceeds the possibility of salvation and couldn’t understand how so many could be so sure.  I was conflicted with years of the typical Christian soteriology.  I had preached a gospel whose power was fear; turn or burn, what a horrible thought.  Sometimes, well-meaning Christians would attempt to comfort me by saying that David was in heaven, then paused and asked David was saved, wasn’t he? Uhhh…  I don’t know, what if he wasn’t!  Of course, silence ensued.   Why would God create the living, allow them to die so that they wouldn’t live forever in a state of sin, but allow a part of them to survive to be tormented while they wait to be brought back to life completely and be kept alive forever in a torture chamber. How is that better than living forever in sin? There had to be a better purpose for death.  That is what I had believed, but the thought that this could be the fate of my own son shocked me into a greater awareness.  I knew something was wrong with this thinking and am grateful to God for having revealed Himself to me in a way I had not known.  It probably would have been simpler to accept all the assurances that I was receiving, but I wanted assurance from God.

While I believed David to be a good kid and have a basic belief in God, I was unsure that he met the Christian definition of being saved.  As I grappled with God and approached scripture with a new heart and mind I began to see many things that settled the matter of David’s destiny.  Everyone that assured me of David’s salvation had David in mind when reaching that conclusion.  It always came back to David was a good kid, David was only 16, David believed in God, David was a Christian, David accepted Jesus.  It wasn’t until I realized that salvation, eternal life and reconciliation were not all necessarily the same thing and that David’s ultimate end was not found in David’s life, but in Jesus’. I found assurance when I understood that in the same way that David was included in Adam in his earthly life, so too was he included in Jesus’ in his spiritual life.  Living without David is extremely difficult, but living with the fear that David could potentially be tormented in hell forever would make this life intolerable. I don’t understand how those who believe in the hell doctrine as it is commonly taught can remain calm and sane while thinking that their loved ones are either there or heading there.  How could anyone live with that thought and even worse, how could we ever enjoy heaven while many of our children suffer in hell; our heaven would become hell.  To desire to enjoy an eternal bliss while our loved ones suffer hellish blisters seems ungodly and selfish.

While I wish that God hadn’t placed me on this path and miss David terribly I am convinced that David will live again.  For now the sorrow is deep and long for the day when my tears are wiped away as the trumpet of God rouses David from the grave and I see my boy even more beautiful than I knew him to be.

I have created a website that describes in more detail this hope that David will live again.

www.davidwillliveagain.com

 

Next blog in this series: Fellow Pilgrims

Comments
  • Mary Vanderplas October 13, 2012 at 6:39 am

    Thank you, Louis, for sharing the story of your tragic loss and your struggle to make sense of it in light of your faith in a loving and all-powerful God. I can only imagine your pain of losing your son and of struggling to understand why God would allow something that, as you describe it, never should have happened – why, seemingly, God stood by helplessly instead of intervening to rescue your son David. I can see how the thought that God was “controlling the outcome” was the “greatest of all sorrows.”

    Thank you, too, for sharing your struggle to come to terms with David’s destiny in light of what you had always believed about the final destiny of human beings. Your resolve to go to God with your questions, seeking understanding and assurance from him, is a model of faithful response. Your comment, “It probably would have been simpler to accept all the assurances that I was receiving, but I wanted assurance from God,” speaks volumes.

    Your thoughts about David’s eternal destiny being secure because he was included in Jesus are beautiful. I can well understand how shifting your perspective from human acts to God’s act in Jesus gave you a deep assurance and delivered you from the intolerable burden of wondering whether David might be fated for eternal torment. I agree that it is hard to understand how anyone can live easily with the thought that his/her loved ones will burn in hell forever and that it is hard to fathom being able to experience the bliss of heaven while others are being tortured eternally.

    Thank you for sharing your confidence in the resurrection to eternal life for David – the hope that keeps you going in the midst of the ongoing pain of missing him. I enjoyed reading your blog. I wish you every blessing in your journey of trusting God in the midst of the deep sorrow.

    • Lanny A. Eichert October 15, 2012 at 3:16 pm

      eternal destiny being secure because he was included in Jesus are beautiful

      E.D. is eternally secure always: securely heaven for saints, but securely the lake of hell fire for all others, which is not beautiful unless you’re an abused saints abused by those others:

      Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. {Psalm 139: 21 – 24}

      You all failed to realize when God converts a sinner, that sinner KNOWS he’s beeen converted and wants his world to know it.

      Kurt Kaiser in 1969 wrote a song titled It Only Takes a Spark in which one stanza reads: I wish for you my friend, this happiness that I’ve found, You can depend on Him, it matters not where you’re bound. I’ll shout it from the mountain top – I want my world to know; The Lord of love has come to me, I want to pass it on.

      This son, David, is an “unknown” to you all regarding salvation and yet you insist on hoping he is saved contrary to all indications. You let your emotions get the better of yourselves than the truth of God’s perfect literal Holy Bible. Ten Bible verses tell the truth as I’ve previously told that you there’s no hope for the ungodly who die without first truly confessing Christ. They die eternally without hope.

      • Mary Vanderplas October 15, 2012 at 9:26 pm

        My hope for Louis’ son rests on solid ground – namely, the biblical truth that in Jesus Christ, God dealt decisively with sin, ensuring that the blessing of God’s favor is extended widely, even universally.

        • Lanny A. Eichert October 16, 2012 at 2:07 am

          Mary, that’s contrary to all indications; and mere unconfirmed imaginary hope. Whereas God’s perfect literal Holy Bible requires:

          But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name {John 1: 12}

          This son, David, is an “unknown” to you all regarding salvation and you have no right to think what you do.

          Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy {Psalm 107: 2}

          God’s saints declare their salvation and Louis gave no such indication of his son.

          Furthermore:
          That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. {Romans 10: 9 & 10}
          Verbal confession is necessary.

          Your hope is contrary to all indications and God’s perfect literal Holy Bible. Are you going to believe the Bible or your heart?

          The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? {Jeremiah 17: 9}

          • Mary Vanderplas October 16, 2012 at 8:08 pm

            Contrary to all indications?? Baloney. The indications, based in the scriptures, are that God loves the world, that God desires that all be saved, that God acted in Christ to overcome all sin, and that this unendingly gracious God will deny no one the offer of his saving gift, pursuing every last person until all are drawn by his triumphant love.

            Imaginary hope?? “My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus’ blood and righteousness…..” I’ll leave it to God to work out how and when those who have not yet received his gracious gift are brought to him.

            I have no right to think what I do??? Why, of course, I should have known: Lanny is in charge of my mind. ***

            • Lanny A. Eichert October 17, 2012 at 8:52 am

              Mary errs in writing “this unendingly gracious God will deny no one the offer of his saving gift”, because the truth is that He has chosen, elected, most people to damnation and only few people to salvation. She neglects the Revelation 17: 8 fact that their names were deliberately never entered into the Book of Life at the foundation of the world, which proves God from the beginning had never planned to save them. She still has no right to claim God is “pursuing every last person until all are drawn by his triumphant love.”

              whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world
              the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction

              • Lanny A. Eichert October 17, 2012 at 9:12 am

                Mary, please think deeply about the Revelation 17: 8 fact of these people of this verse having not yet been born when the text was written and yet the absence of their name is counted from the beginning, the foundation of the world. Don’t you see that their exclusion from God’s salvation was planned by God from the very beginning. What God planned at the beginning He is unable to change. He is unable to violate His own plan for the ages. He is unable to pursue every last person until all are drawn by his triumphant love. Obviously His triumphant love is unable to save everybody. Why, Mary? Because it was NOT in His plan. See Matthew 7: 13 & 14

                • Mary Vanderplas October 17, 2012 at 7:56 pm

                  I’ve discussed these texts with you in the past, more than once, and have no intention of discussing them with you again.

                  The God you describe as a distant deity who is bound by a rigid, mechanical Plan made “beforehand” by which some are arbitrarily chosen for salvation and others rejected is not the God of scripture and of Jesus Christ. Indeed, this god is a caricature of the God revealed in Christ – the God who is living and active, who is love in himself, and who has acted in love for the sake of the whole world. The revelation of God’s saving act is unqualified good news; it is not good news for a privileged few and (exceedingly) bad news for all the rest. No one is excluded from the offer of God’s saving gift. None is beyond the reach of God’s mercy.

                  I’m done on this subject. Don’t waste your time trying to engage me again. I’m sick to death of your tired arguments and your terrible doctrine. Keep spewing them all you want, but know that I’m done listening.

                  • Lanny A. Eichert October 18, 2012 at 2:45 am

                    Mary, I never described God as distant, but to YOU He is distant because of the truth of double election. You see, God’s elect know Him close up and active in everything even the personal hardening of your heart to His concrete plan.

  • Lanny A. Eichert October 13, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Face reality, dear people: the wicked burn forever. You are responsible for your own destiny and nobody else’s. It seems as if you cannot believe God wipes away all tears of those He saves. That likely makes you an unbeliever and if so your tears will never be wiped away.

    • admin October 13, 2012 at 12:08 pm

      Lanny: “You are responsible for your own destiny”

      Paul: “What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,’I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.’ It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: ‘I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.’ Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me:’Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?’ But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? ‘Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it,‘Why did you make me like this?’ Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?”

      This raises many more questions, of course, about the character and intentions of God, especially if the doctrine of eternal torment were true. As you know, I absolutely reject that doctrine based on both scriptural evidence and the witness of His Spirit in me and in David. The Spirit says that believers have not been thinking big enough, believers have been expecting too little from God, believers need to revisit Romans 5 to learn about hope that is not disappointed…

      “And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.”

      • Lanny A. Eichert October 13, 2012 at 1:36 pm

        Alice absolutely rejects that doctrine based on both scriptural evidence and the witness of His Spirit in her and in David. Don’t you know that spirit on which you depend is contrary to God’s perfect literal Holy Bible which offers no hope to the damned? They are damned because of their own evil heart inherited from Adam upon which God pressed the issue because He wasn’t willing to easily let them perish without fighting for their souls. They are without excuse the Scriptures also say. There is no Scriptural evidence for salvation after mortal death: not a single person recorded in the Biblical historic record, while it abounds with many mortals’ salvation. The Biblical record never says the moon is made of blue cheese, Alice; but just because it doesn’t say so, doesn’t mean it isn’t.

        If you cannot believe God wipes away all tears of those He saves, that likely makes you an unbeliever and if so your tears will never be wiped away. *** believe the Holy Bible unconditionally. God WILL wipe away the tears of His redeemed ones, while yet justly casting His trash into eternal torments proper for who they are.

        Please face reality and leave your false self-invented dream.

      • Lanny A. Eichert October 15, 2012 at 2:45 pm

        thinking big enough:

        For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? {Psalm 6: 5}
        let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave. {Psalm 31: 17}
        they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them {Psalm 49: 14}
        among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. {Psalm 88: 5}
        Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? {Psalm 88: 10 – 12}
        The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. {Psalm 115: 17}
        for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. {Ecclesiastes 9: 10}
        For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. {Isaiah 38: 18}

        we boast in the hope of the glory of God: {as the Scriptures say of God’s saints} God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes … for the former things are passed away

        we boast in the hope of the glory of God: {as the Scriptures really say of God’s eternal trash} But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

  • Stephen Helbig October 16, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    I’m reminded of a picture puzzle. Being a parent of seven children we put together many puzzles over the years. When the children were young, we would begin like all who attempt in completing a puzzle to work the perimeters, and during this initial stage I would walk by and check the progress, ~ check the excitement,~ say a good word, ~ help by finding a next piece, ~ and during this time I would always swipe one piece and hide it in my pocket until the end.
    Upon completion of all (but this final piece) I would then mosey back to the puzzle with all children around and say.~ “ Look Here” , and place the last piece down to complete the puzzle to shouts of “DAD!”, and we all would smile.
    The last piece of the puzzle in our lives is ~ “WE WILL LIVE AGAIN” ~ Why ~ Because of the work of our Father God and The Lord Jesus Christ, He has fit ALL the pieces together with the work of the second man Jesus.
    We need not understand all that is involved in this process of the final picture because we see not all the pieces being placed together, but if we SEE JESUS we can see the final outcome and destiny of the puzzle. The Last Adam ~ restored and complete in Him.
    Notice ~
    What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
    Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
    Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. ~ But we see Jesus,
    ~ But we see Jesus, ~ But we see Jesus, ~ But we see Jesus, ~ But we see Jesus

    • Lanny A. Eichert October 17, 2012 at 8:00 am

      Stephen, eternal torment is not a puzzle piece. It is the table upon which you put your puzzle.

      • Stephen Helbig October 18, 2012 at 8:58 am

        Lanny states, ~ “Stephen, eternal torment is not a puzzle piece. It is the table upon which you put your puzzle.

        I fail to see the association of eternal torment as being the “TABLE” as you state above. A table represents a FOUNDATION to set “something” upon, ~ And as you know our foundation is the Lord Jesus Christ. While you make a comparison in the style you like ~ I prefer and point out that, there is at least one place in scripture ~ where a “TABLE” is associated with the “Tabernacle of God” ~ of WHICH YOU ARE. ~ There is a piece of tabernacle furniture which is called the Table of Showbread, ~ It represents not only Jesus Christ but His anointed. ~ I would further like to point out that as a follower of our Lord Jesus Christ we have become this “TABLE”, ~ and show forth the LIVING BREAD of His word ~ THE HEAVENLY MANNA ~ (Notice this ~ Spiritually “Manna” refers to DIVINE POWER or SUSTENANCE) ~ “For as He is so are we in this world” ~ . So I proclaim to you that this picture (anology) for me is my focus, I choose and I hope you can clearly now see how I can say the “TABLE” is the furthest thing from eternal torment, (as you associate in your analogy), ~ (At least this is the case for me and my house)

        p.s. ~ The doctrine of eternal torment is based on a literal interpretation of some of the metaphors of Scripture, to the complete neglect of many other Scriptures. ~ No doctrine has ever been put forth with more bitterness or with such grossness and corrupt coarseness. This doctrine is the traditions of men, and is hideous and repugnant in the face of the love and kindness of God. ~ It is totally inconceivable and totally absurd and comes from the carnal understanding of man.

        p.s.s . ~ Jesus gave a wonderful teaching in Matthew 11, ~ One aspect of which is often overlooked. ~ He said that if Tyre and Sidon had only witnessed the mighty works which were done in Chorazin and Bethsaida THEY WOULD HAVE REPENTED ~ long ago in sackcloth and ashes. ~ That is, the more knowledge and information, the more light and revelation, ~ This would have brought them, (Tyre and Sidon), to REPENTANCE, according to Jesus. ~ Lanny, can you honestly think that God will torment the inhabitants of Tyre and Sidon for ever because of their lack of knowledge?

        Jesus also said that if Sodom could have witnessed the mighty works that were done in Capernaum “it would have remained until this day”. Do you think that the inhabitants of Sodom will be tormented for ever just because they lacked the opportunities of Capernaum? ~ NO! ~ NOT AT ALL! ~ God will NOT inflict ultimate punishment of fallacious “ETERNAL TORMENT” on men who have not had ultimate knowledge, LOOK AT JESUS!. ~ “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, AND COME UNTO the knowledge of the truth” (I Tim. 2:3-4).

        • Lanny A. Eichert October 21, 2012 at 3:22 pm

          Stephen asks, “can you honestly think that God will torment the inhabitants of Tyre and Sidon for ever because of their lack of knowledge?”

          They had NOT repented with what knowledge they did have, which certainly was sufficient.

          Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse {Romans 1: 19, 20}

          WITHOUT EXCUSE, dear Stephen, without excuse is God’s judgment so plainly declared to us. Read the rest of the chapter.

          Ten Bible verses literally prove your puzzle a falsehood.
          For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? {Psalm 6: 5}
          let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave. {Psalm 31: 17}
          they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them {Psalm 49: 14}
          among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. {Psalm 88: 5}
          Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? {Psalm 88: 10 – 12}
          The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. {Psalm 115: 17}
          for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. {Ecclesiastes 9: 10}
          For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. {Isaiah 38: 18}

          • Stephen Helbig October 22, 2012 at 11:17 am

            Jesus ~ “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live” (Jn. 5:25). Think on that statement. Was not Jesus telling us that we are dead as dead can be? And did He not make two wonderfully noteworthy statements – first, the hour is coming, and second, the hour now is when the DEAD SHALL HEAR the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live? Have we not who have believed, ~ Proven these these veryTruths by the very Holy Spirit given to us and is not our experience the greatest proof in the universe that Jesus Christ is alive forevermore. The fact that, when we believed, He came to dwell within us. He who is alive forevermore, has come to us that we might live also… and has raised us up together with Himself to share with Him the life of the ages.

            Lanny please note this, ~ The nature of our future existence is not set out, neither in the patriarchal, nor in the prophetical times of the old dispensation, (the old covenant), (Old Testament), as FULLY and as VIVIDLY as under the New dispensation of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. And yet some will tell us that the dead are dead – that there is no life or consciousness or being apart from or beyond or above ones physical existence – yet Jesus says ~ “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.” Do you believe it?

            The mystery is just this. Jesus died for the whole race of men. When He arose He added something to the situation ~ LIFE For Evermore ~ He injected that into the Human Race, ~ So that there is a spiritual quality in every man that transcends the body realm. It is a dimension of being that even the grave cannot hold. It is that “light” which lighteth every man that cometh into the world, and that light is Christ (Jn. 1:4,9-10). Lanny you say ~ No life beyond the grave? If this be so then Christ did not die and rise again, He did not taste death for every man, He did not give His life for the life of the world, He did not abolish death and bring life and immortality to light! ~ That light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world is in the spiritual sense of being found in every man which is eternal and deathless, This LIFE in every man IS ~ in seed form , ~ The word of God, ~ Which will not return void, ~ His Word will accomplish that which HE DESIRES! God WILL pursue by HIS Spirit, ~ His Work in us, ~ Until we are brought to the image and likeness of God, ~ that He may become “All-in-all.” ~ This free gift came (has already come) upon ALL MEN unto JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE (Rom. 5:18). Can anything be plainer? Any other doctrine is OLD TESTAMENT doctrine, not the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who hath abolished death. WE have the ministry of RECONCILLIATION ~ To RECONCILE ALL ~
            ALL ~ ALL ~ ALL ~ ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

            For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL ~ ~Colosians (1:16-20)

            • Stephen Helbig October 22, 2012 at 12:57 pm

              p.s. ~ Lanny states ~WITHOUT EXCUSE, dear Stephen, without excuse is God’s judgment so plainly declared to us. Read the rest of the chapter.

              Lanny, not only did I read the rest of the chapter… but as you can clearl see.. I continued to read thru to… ~ Romans 5:18 ~ Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (vs19) ~ For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (vs20) ~ Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: (vs21) ~ That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

            • Lanny A. Eichert October 23, 2012 at 5:31 pm

              Stephen, WITHOUT EXCUSE is still wothout excuse because they MUST respond in faith which they are not able to do in and beyond the grave. Ten undeniable Bible verses proves that, even showing God abandoned them to destruction. Again the Revelation 17: 8 text proves He has had NO intention of saving everybody. Salvation texts are for those He has chosen from the beginning, God’s Elect. Any one not of that company will burn forever. The Lord knows them that are His {2 Timothy 2: 19}. Face reality. Reality is what is only found in God’s definite words of His perfect literal Holy Bible. Your ideas don’t correspond to the Holy Bible since you wrongly connect texts apart from their contexts.

              And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. {Matthew 7: 23}

  • […] Soul’s Complaint, Awakening, by Asia Samson, Running a Thousand Miles for Freedom, David Will Live Again, and Fellow […]

  • Post a comment

    Threaded commenting powered by interconnect/it code.