3rd Wheel Connections

3rd Wheel Connections

In 2001, Mark Demaio graduated the University of Central Florida and through many experiences dedicated himself to service. In the course of 10 years, he has taught overseas, worked as a mentor and tutor, and carefully crafted his own brand of creating music with complete strangers and non-musicians. He has studied and played with world renowned drum circle facilitators and drummers. He is Remo HealthRhythms trained and has had over five years experience creating drum circles for school and after school diversion programs, parties, teacher team building workshops, and more.

 

Originally, I planned to transcribe the interview with Mark his about his drum circle and mentoring organization called 3rd Wheel, but when I listened to the audio, I felt that his story would be better received in his own voice along with the beautiful background noise (wind chimes, birds, crickets, neighborhood noise).  The original interview was about an hour and forty-five minutes.  It didn’t seem that long at all, though.  I’ve whittled it down to less than half an hour to make it more blog-friendly.  For anyone who is curious about drum circles, Mark begins by explaining the some history of drum circles, what drums circles are like, who participates, and the purposes that drum circles serve.  He continues by sharing some fascinating stories about group participation, interaction, and connection.  This interview, in my opinion, speaks to everyone, drum circle participant or not.

Here is the interview: http://youtu.be/YTfLUl4gEiA

Here are a couple of examples of drum circle beats: http://youtu.be/gjUvXINHSUM

Mark and Alejandra will be married December 21st. Congrats!

Comments
  • Mary Vanderplas November 25, 2012 at 6:35 am

    What this man is doing sounds wonderful. It isn’t hard to see, from what he said about the many benefits of the art, how drumming could be used in various settings to foster a deeper sense of community and a greater acceptance and respect among people across differences. I liked what he said about its benefits as an interactive form of entertainment, involving the whole person and all centers of the brain, in contrast to forms of entertainment that involve only sitting and listening. I liked, too, what he said about it involving opportunities both to lead and to follow and learning when to do which in service of the goal of creating harmonious music. I loved his comments about drumming circles being a microcosm of larger structures – from which can be learned important principles about what is required for the structures to work. And I liked what he said about the drumming circle not being about any particular religion or spirituality but rather being a means whereby people are brought together and enabled to exercise their God-given creativity in community.

    Mark Demaio sounds like a wonderful person – someone who is using the gifts God has given him for making music to break down barriers and build bridges and to enable people to realize their humanity in genuine community with others. I love the stories of his own reaching out across cultural and racial divides to connect with the people around him. May God continue to bless this man in the ways he is enacting the rule of God. Thanks for sharing this interview!

    • admin November 25, 2012 at 8:07 pm

      It was really inspiring for me, to talk with him about his work. I might get him to set up a drum circle for a family get-together one of these days. I think everyone would like it.

      • Mary Vanderplas November 26, 2012 at 5:20 am

        I imagine it would go over well, since so many in your family are musically inclined, and that it would be a lot of fun.

  • Lanny A. Eichert November 26, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    It matters not. If you die in your sins, you burn forever in the Lake of Fire. Jesus said so:

    I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. {John 8: 24}

    Why would He make such a big deal of dying in your sins if it weren’t final? Without remedy?

    • Mary Vanderplas November 27, 2012 at 5:20 am

      What “matters not”? Life in this world matters not? Physical, temporal life matters not? The material world and everything in it, which God created and loves and is at work to renew, matters not? If this is what you’re saying, you couldn’t be more wrong. Indeed, a world-denying, otherworldly spirituality is the antithesis of what the Bible teaches and what Jesus lived. If God created heaven and earth and everything in them, then to believe in this God is to affirm and not deny the world and its responsibilities and pleasures. To withdraw from the world, retreating into an otherworldly religious cocoon, or to spurn the Creator’s good gifts is decidedly not Christian.

      • Lanny A. Eichert November 27, 2012 at 9:59 am

        Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. {1 John 2: 15 – 17}

        If you die in your sins, you burn forever in the Lake of Fire. Jesus said so:

        I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. {John 8: 24}

        Why would He make such a big deal of dying in your sins if it weren’t final? Without remedy?

        • Mary Vanderplas November 28, 2012 at 5:46 am

          The text in 1 John isn’t saying that the created world is evil; it’s saying that we shouldn’t make the creation, which is transitory, the source of identity and meaning in life. We shouldn’t, in other words, put the creation in the place of the Creator. There is nothing here that says we should escape from the world into an otherworldly spirituality, much less that we should despise what God has made.

          “The earth is the Lord’s and all that is in it, the world, and those who live in it” (Psalm 24:1).

          “God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good.” (Genesis 1:31).

          See also John 2:1ff. and Matthew 11:19, for evidence that Jesus was not ascetic.

        • Lanny A. Eichert November 28, 2012 at 2:29 pm

          Mary, Mary, Mary, why do you major on minors to skip the real issue:

          ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. … I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. {John 8: 21 & 24}

          If you die in your sins, you burn forever in the Lake of Fire. Jesus said so.
          Why would He make such a big deal of dying in your sins if it weren’t final? Without remedy?

          • Mary Vanderplas November 29, 2012 at 5:51 pm

            Only the most misguided and perverse theology would call focusing on the world God created, preserves, rules, and is working even now to renew “majoring in the minors.”

            • Lanny A. Eichert November 30, 2012 at 2:02 pm

              Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. {Matthew 6: 19 – 21}

              Mary, where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. If you die in your sins, you burn forever in the Lake of Fire.

              • Mary Vanderplas December 1, 2012 at 8:06 am

                Orienting one’s life to the life of God’s kingdom – which is what Jesus is calling disciples to do – doesn’t mean renouncing or seeking escape from life in the world.

              • Lanny A. Eichert December 1, 2012 at 3:15 pm

                Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. {John 18: 36}

                • Mary Vanderplas December 2, 2012 at 1:03 pm

                  Jesus wasn’t here renouncing God’s good creation or endorsing an otherworldly spirituality. He was saying that his authority is not from this world and is not based on the things that this-worldly governments are based on, specifically, force and violence. Rather, his authority as king is “from above” and is based on self-giving love. Jesus was, in other words, very much in but not of the world.

  • Lanny A. Eichert November 26, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. {John 8: 21} Jesus said, “whither I go, ye cannot come.” He certainly knew they’d NEVER get to heaven. Why? Jesus knows there is no forgiveness of sins after physical death. Don’t you see, He said, “ye … shall die in your sins.”

    Jesus said, “whither I go, ye cannot come.” As the Prophet, He declared their eternal doom: “ye cannot come.” As God, He certainly knows their final estate and why it is so: “ye … shall die in your sins.”

    Physical death is the cut-off for salvation according to Jesus, dear reader, despite what Alice and the others on this site try to tell you. A person who dies without his sins forgiven lives forever in his sins and never can please God in that eternal state.

    “ye cannot come.”

    • admin November 26, 2012 at 9:55 pm

      “ye shall die in your sins” = “ye shall burn in hell for eternity”? Nope.
      “whither I go, ye cannot come” = “whither I go, ye cannot EVER come”? Nope.

      Nice try, Lanny.

      • Lanny A. Eichert November 26, 2012 at 10:09 pm

        Alice, you can deny the truth all you want but it doesn’t change a thing.

        For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. {Romans 3: 3 & 4}

        • admin November 27, 2012 at 1:34 am

          I’m trying to figure out how that particular verse you quote supports your ideology. It seems to do just the opposite.

    • Lanny A. Eichert November 27, 2012 at 12:11 am

      Alice, your heresy falls apart because if Jesus wanted people to have the hope that if they missed salvation in this life, they could get it after they died, He’d certainly have preached that hope. That He, the Lord of Hope, did NOT do. Why, Alice? Why did Jesus chronicle his saints of old, yet not a one of them became saved AFTER they physically died? Not a one of them did exploits of faith after they died? Don’t you see, you post physical death salvation makes no sense at all? Has no support by Jesus at all.

      Jesus told specific people living during His first advent “whither I go, ye cannot come” knowing who they were and why they cannot come. He made that statement as the Prophet, just as He made that statement in John 17: 12 that Judas Iscariot is lost, perished. He is God and as such, knows who cannot come and who is perished. He gave no hint of any hope for them. It is a Satanic falsehood to go beyond Jesus’ words. Those words are a final statement by the Son of God.

      • admin November 27, 2012 at 1:33 am

        Is Jesus, Savior of the whole world, UNABLE or UNWILLING to intercede for the whole world?

        • Lanny A. Eichert November 27, 2012 at 3:42 am

          Answer was Jesus UNABLE or UNWILLING to keep Adam and Eve from disobedience and sin? Then you’ll know the answer to your question.

          • admin November 27, 2012 at 8:12 am

            Are you saying that sin was an accident?

            • Lanny A. Eichert November 27, 2012 at 9:54 am

              Answer was Jesus UNABLE or UNWILLING to keep Adam and Eve from disobedience and sin? Then you’ll know the answer to both of your questions.

              • admin November 27, 2012 at 10:27 pm

                I ask for your benefit, not mine. I already know the answers to these questions.

                • Lanny A. Eichert November 27, 2012 at 11:09 pm

                  Then tell me for my benefit.

                  • admin November 28, 2012 at 12:47 pm

                    Do you not know the answers, or is saying them too uncomfortably much like speaking truth?

                    • Lanny A. Eichert November 28, 2012 at 2:16 pm

                      Alice, you read what I just wrote Patrick on Dream Machines:

                      November 27, 2012 at 11:39 pm
                      Patrick, How can God want us to know what it is like to be sinful in Adam? Can an absolutely holy person, as God is, have such a desire for creatures He made in His image? Can God desire His creatures disobey Him? Can God desire His creatures ruin the image in which they were created? Don’t you see that you make no sense? You corrupt God.

                      I expected your deceitful answer. If you’re really meaning “for my benefit” let’s hear it.

                    • admin November 28, 2012 at 2:40 pm

                      Is Jesus, Savior of the whole world, UNABLE or UNWILLING to intercede for the whole world?
                      Are you saying that sin was an accident?

                      Answering these questions honestly and without bias makes your doctrine very, very suspect and invites a ton of scrutiny. It doesn’t surprise me that you are either UNABLE or UNWILLING to give any answers. For one who seems to believe he has the answer to any and every theological question, your non-responsiveness and evasion speaks volumes.

                      Here are some other questions I doubt you will answer:

                      Why did God create an opportunity for humanity to obtain the Knowledge of Good and Evil, if He knew it would result in such disastrous consequences as those you suggest?
                      Why did God arrange it such that the only way for one to obtain this Knowledge would be through disobedience, if He knew that disobedience would result in such permanent consequences as those you suggest?
                      Why did God place the opportunity for disobedience at the center of the human experience, without also making clear the dire consequences that you suggest? (In other words, why would God merely say “you will die” and not clearly say “you will burn in Hell forever”?)
                      Why did God practically ensure human failure to resist disobedience by permitting temptation?

                      I don’t blame you for not wanting to answer the hard questions. It’s frightening to consider the possibility that you’ve spent most of your life believing and teaching error – I speak from experience in this. Good thing God permits U-turns. Too bad spiritual pride and fear keeps so many people from doing just that.

                    • Lanny A. Eichert November 28, 2012 at 2:18 pm

                      Was Jesus UNABLE or UNWILLING to keep Adam and Eve from disobedience and sin?

                    • admin November 29, 2012 at 12:08 pm

                      Unwilling, obviously. But not “eternally” unwilling. Unwilling for a set period of time with a beginning and an end, and for a reason.

                    • Lanny A. Eichert November 28, 2012 at 3:37 pm

                      Alice, God would have been perfectly pleased if Adam and Eve never sinned, which was perfectly possible. How do I know? Look at the angels. Only a small percentage rebelled against God.

                      God is holy and does not tempt men or angels. You must know that.

      • Lanny A. Eichert November 28, 2012 at 3:07 pm

        Alice, both questions need to be answered TOGETHER.

        Is Jesus, Savior of the whole world, UNABLE or UNWILLING to intercede for the whole world?
        Was Jesus UNABLE or UNWILLING to keep Adam and Eve from disobedience and sin?

        In other of your wording, was Jesus, Savior of the whole world, UNABLE or UNWILLING to intercede for Adam and Eve that they would not disobey God and sin; and thus produce the whole human race in the grace of God that maintains His holiness in the race? Do you see what your end result is? Why let the majority of the human race suffer in Adam? The cross could have been avoided and your end result more perfect if Jesus had interceded for our first parents. So when you ask your question: “Is Jesus, Savior of the whole world, UNABLE or UNWILLING to intercede for the whole world?” why do you exclude Adam and Eve at their moment in human history? Why does your false jesus wait until AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment to intercede for the whole world? Why does he let the “whole” world go to hell before he intercedes?

        For the reader, when Alice means intercedes, she means her jesus gets what he asks {intercedes}, that is the salvation of the whole world.

        • admin November 29, 2012 at 12:06 pm

          I don’t understand, Lanny. Are you talking about Jesus showing up in Eden and personally making it impossible for humanity to obtain the knowledge of good and evil? That’s not interceding, that’s prevention. Interceding is mediating or advocating and it involves two parties. Prior to humanity’s knowledge of good and evil there was no division, therefore no need for intercession.

          You write, “Why let the majority of the human race suffer in Adam? The cross could have been avoided and your end result more perfect if Jesus had interceded for our first parents.” As if you are somehow able to come up with a better plan then God? It happened the way it happened for a reason. I may not know exactly what that reason is, but I believe that God, who knows the end from the beginning, has a good reason for everything He does.

          Why do you say Jesus waits until after the Great White Throne Judgment to intercede? Where did that come from? I have no idea why you think that I believe this, because I don’t look at redemption as something that can be confined to any one particular age. Jesus always lives to intercede, for as long as there is any need for an intercessor. His redemptive work covers all people in all times. If I could only get you to consider spiritual concepts apart from the linear (limited) view.

    • Lanny A. Eichert November 28, 2012 at 4:10 pm

      Alice, your question: “Why did God practically ensure human failure to resist disobedience by permitting temptation?” needs to be answered by another question: Why in schools are there questions to answer at the end of chapters as well as tests and exams given to students? Don’t you see how you miss the point? Temptations are meant for the same purpose as test questions in school. The expectation of the teacher is passing grades: proof of approval. Temptation means testing and does NOT automatically mean failure and condemnation. Such an idea as yours is a corruption of God’s holiness. You have corrupted God just like Patrick did.

      God is holy and made Adam and Eve in His image, which means they, too, were to continue in holiness, not the sinfulness of Satan and his fallen angels. Hasn’t your Reformed tradition taught you to practice holiness without which no man shall see God? If you think God intended Adam and Eve to deliberately disobey Him, you need to think more correctly about His holiness and the image in which He created them. Please do it and answer the two questions.

      • admin November 29, 2012 at 11:51 am

        If your idea that “proof of approval” is why God permitted the original temptation, then it served its purpose. We all fail miserably. The implication is that God permitted us to be tempted a test that He knew we would fail, and then provided a Savior for our fallen state Who is only able/willing to redeem a handful of everyone He was sent to save. If your idea of eternal torment were true, then them implications are even worse than that, because God knew ahead of time, before anyone even existed, what the outcome of His plan would be, but He did it anyway. What a bunch of nonsense, Lanny. You talk about me or Patrick – that we have “corrupted God” – but you might want to turn that accusation toward yourself. I say God has purpose in everything He does, and that His purposes are always good, right, beneficial, and ultimately result in His glory and praise. You may SAY the same, but since your theology absolutely denies it, your words are rendered meaningless.

        • Lanny A. Eichert November 29, 2012 at 3:12 pm

          Alice, “because God knew ahead of time, before anyone even existed, what the outcome of His plan would be, but He did it” is what you propose but with an unholy God and an unholy first human couple. You have made for yourself imaginary problems by the sinful imagination of your heart generating your “implications” and so corrupting the holiness of God and the creature holiness of our first parents. You refuse to let God be holy and create two people in His image of holiness. You blame their failure to maintain their holiness on God, saying He “set them up” for the fall. That is blasphemy, Alice. It is blasphemy to insist it was God’s PLAN that Adam and Eve be expelled from God’s presence and then recovered by redemption. How foolish a god have you?

          BTW, how long did they walk with God before they were expelled from the garden? Was it hours, days, weeks, months, or years? The longer they were obedient, the greater Satan’s victory and insult to God when he accusingly holds them up to God’s face that His presence was not sufficient to keep them.

          Your problem revolves around God’s foreknowledge and how you think that impacted His plans. Your proposal unavoidably corrupts holiness; and you plead ignorance for what you yourself created, shifting the responsibility to your god for a solution to the problem you created. You seem to lack the integrity to own human responsibility for Adam, Eve, and yourself.

          It is heretical to blame human sin on God.

          • admin November 29, 2012 at 5:10 pm

            How exactly, do I “refuse to let God be holy”? I never said God was unholy, except in reference to the implications of YOUR theology, which I believe is FALSE. I’m not blaming humanity’s failure on God, I’m saying that God was in no way surprised by it, since He knew it would inevitably happen, He planned for it even before it happened, and He made every arrangement conducive to it happening. Who created people? Who put them in a garden? Who created the knowledge of good and evil? Who did NOTHING to prevent temptation? If not God, then WHO, Lanny? He has “bound us all over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on us all” (Rom.11:32). Disobedience is our doing. Ensuring every single human being (except Jesus Christ) falls under the category of “disobedience” is God’s doing. And it doesn’t make Him unholy, it just makes Him mysterious. One day we’ll know why He does what He does, but in the meantime, we need to trust Him, that He knows exactly what He’s doing.

            To answer your question – how long – I have no idea.

            • admin November 29, 2012 at 5:12 pm

              What does any of this have to do with 3rd Wheel Drumming? Mark, I apologize that your comment section has been hijacked.

              • Lanny A. Eichert November 30, 2012 at 6:24 pm

                Mark’s 3rd Wheel Drumming at your family get-together will not prevent you from dying in your sins. That’s what “this” has to do with it when I wrote, “It matters not” four days ago.

                If you die in your sins, you burn forever in the Lake of Fire and you won’t be doing any 3rd Wheel Drumming.

                Real Christians have a song, With Eternity’s Values in View, May I Do Each Day’s Work For Jesus. Too bad you don’t know it.

            • Lanny A. Eichert November 29, 2012 at 8:46 pm

              “Why did God practically ensure human failure to resist disobedience by permitting temptation?”

              That question states your position, Alice, and your shift of blame from man to God, making God wickedly the cause of human failure.

  • Lanny A. Eichert November 28, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    Alice, what does this verse of Scripture tell us about God and our temptations?
    There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. {1 Corinthians 10: 13}

    Don’t you see God is NOT practically insuring human failure, but that He is doing just the opposite: insuring success and approval. You also have caused the problem by assuming God intended Adam and Eve to know good AND evil. We went around on this one before, dear one. Their knowledge of evil was sufficient by God’s instruction only, and so should be ours. It was and is the devil’s lie that any one needs to experience evil in order to know it is bad. If God says it is bad and you shouldn’t experience it, we should stop right there.

    Who is instructing you, Alice?

    • admin November 29, 2012 at 11:39 am

      Your comments address a humanity that already possesses the knowledge of good and evil. My comments address humanity prior to obtaining that knowledge. Two completely different subjects.

      • Lanny A. Eichert December 1, 2012 at 4:02 am

        Alice, you asked, “Why did God practically ensure human failure to resist disobedience by permitting temptation?” Do you really think God’s purpose for temptation, testing, was different before they possessed this so-called knowledge of good and evil than it is afterward? That God hadn’t provided a way to escape for Adam and Eve? Alice, the excitement of walking and talking with God their Creator, you think, could not save them from sin? What’s the difference between God their Creator/Keeper/Companion and Jesus, Savior of the whole world, able and willing to intercede for the whole world? The First contains no thought of disapproval, while the Second is always reminiscent of their failure because of His nail-pierced hands, feet, and sword-pierced side. Do you think the Second is more gracious because God wanted the human race to know grace better through failure than in success? What blasphemy !!!

        He has “bound us all over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on us all” (Rom.11:32) AFTER Adam and Eve sinned, not before that tragic event. Like Patrick, you get the order of things all wrong, because you misunderstand God’s foreknowledge and Biblical contexts. You manufacture both time and end-time scenarios that don’t chronologically make sense even to you and justify it by saying your god knows how to make it work since his time is non-linear by your standard. That’s your solve-all retreat.

        Disobedience is our doing. Ensuring every single human being (except Jesus Christ) falls under the category of “disobedience” is God’s doing. How does your god do that ensuring, dear Alice? Your god had to first ensure Adam and Eve, our first parents, were in “disobedience” before they reproduced so their offspring would be children of “disobedience” and then disobedience is our doing thereafter. Your god had to guarantee Adam and Eve’s initial sinful thoughts and deeds. You claim your god did that by permitting temptation and then did NOTHING to prevent temptation.

        I’m curious, WHAT is this temptation you mean your god both permitted and didn’t prevent? Are you meaning Satan’s subtility or God’s placing of that special tree?

      • Lanny A. Eichert December 1, 2012 at 4:48 am

        Bonus thought: God designed Adam and Eve to be dependent, not upon Satan, nor upon a forbidden tree, but upon God for everything, even the knowledge of good and evil which He gave them innately at their beginning. That was their design and God’s intent for their children both then and now.

        Therefore, Alice, your November 29, 2012 at 11:39 am comment above makes no sense.

  • Lanny A. Eichert December 1, 2012 at 4:32 am

    Alice, if your name was not written, like so MANY aren’t, in the Lamb’s Book of Life at the foundation of the world, you will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. End of Book. End of story. How perfectly clear of God.

  • Mark February 14, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    “I am a son of God,” well there’s the whole thing in a nutshell. If you read the King James Bible… You will see in italics, in front of the words “son of God,” the “son of God.” Most people think the italics are for emphasis. They’re not. The italics indicate words interpolated by the translators. You will not find that in the Greek. In the Greek it says, a son of God.

    It seems to me here perfectly plain. That Jesus has got it in the back of his mind that this isn’t something peculiar to himself. So when he says, “I am the Way, no Man comes to the Father but by me.” This “I am” this “Me” is the divine in us.

    We are sons of, or of the nature of God. Manifestations of the divine. This discovery is the gospel. That is the Good News. But this has been perpetually repressed throughout the history of Western religion…..

    And so in music as in art as in any expression of compassion, joy, and love — we find ourselves exploring the kingdom of heaven that Jesus said is within.

    • admin February 15, 2013 at 10:42 am

      This comment reminds me of “For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.” (Romans 8:19, ESV)

    • Lanny A. Eichert February 15, 2013 at 2:42 pm

      Mark & Alice, if everybody is a son of God then why did Jesus say {John 8: 44} Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. ???

      • admin February 15, 2013 at 4:08 pm

        “Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men, the testimony given in its proper time.”

        “the secret of the Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit, that the nations be fellow-heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in the Christ, through the good news, of which I became a ministrant, according to the gift of the grace of God that was given to me, according to the working of His power; to me, the less than the least of all the saints, was given this grace, among the nations to proclaim good news, the untraceable riches of the Christ,
        and to cause all to see what [is] the fellowship of the secret that hath been hid from the ages in God, who the all things did create by Jesus Christ, that there might be made known now to the principalities and the authorities in the heavenly [places], through the assembly, the manifold wisdom of God, according to a purpose of the ages, which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have the freedom and the access in confidence through the faith of him, wherefore, I ask [you] not to faint in my tribulations for you, which is your glory. For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in the heavens and on earth is named…”

        “Giving thanks to the Father who did make us meet for the participation of the inheritance of the saints in the light, who did rescue us out of the authority of the darkness, and did translate [us] into the reign of the Son of His love, in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins, who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation, because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created, and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted. And himself is the head of the body, the assembly, who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all [things] himself first, because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle, and through him to reconcile the all things to himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross, through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.”

        “God, being rich in kindness, because of His great love with which He loved us, even being dead in the trespasses, did make us to live together with the Christ, (by grace ye are having been saved,) and did raise [us] up together, and did seat [us] together in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, that He might show, in the ages that are coming, the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus, for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you, of God the gift, not of works, that no one may boast; for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk. Wherefore, remember, that ye [were] once the nations in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that called Circumcision in the flesh made by hands, that ye were at that time apart from Christ, having been alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, having no hope, and without God, in the world; and now, in Christ Jesus, ye being once afar off became nigh in the blood of the Christ, for he is our peace, who did make both one, and the middle wall of the enclosure did break down, the enmity in his flesh, the law of the commands in ordinances having done away, that the two he might create in himself into one new man, making peace, and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, having slain the enmity in it, and having come, he did proclaim good news, peace to you, the far-off and the nigh, because through him we have the access, we both, in one Spirit unto the Father. Then, therefore, ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God, being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being chief corner-[stone], in whom all the building fitly framed together doth increase to an holy sanctuary in the Lord, in whom also ye are builded together, for a habitation of God in the Spirit.”

        “And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead, the first-fruits of those sleeping he became, for since through man [is] the death, also through man [is] a rising again of the dead, for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ’s, in his presence, then the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power, for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet, the last enemy is done away, death; for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, [it is] evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him, and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.”

        Notice the verb tenses. Speaking things that are not, as though they are – this is the language of faith, because faith is the “substance” and “evidence” of things “hoped for” and “not [yet] seen.”

        I expect all of this will go completely over your head, as usual, Lanny, until “due time” and “according to the purpose of the ages.” I can say that you presently do understand, even though you don’t, if I speak in the language of faith, that God is all in all, including you. We live within the confines of time/space/matter, consequently, we understand and explain according to time/space/matter. But God transcends time/space/matter. In Him (all in all, remember), we understand and explain according to His view, which is not bound by past, present, and future. For our sake, He says it “will” happen or “when” it happens, but in His view, it is finished.

        • Lanny A. Eichert February 15, 2013 at 5:37 pm

          I can say that you presently do understand, even though you don’t

          Alice, that’s insane babble.

          • admin February 15, 2013 at 11:34 pm

            If it is insane babble, then God babbles insanely: “God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were” (Romans 4:17).

    • Lanny A. Eichert February 16, 2013 at 2:01 am

      Alice, Mark’s: This “I am” this “Me” is the divine in us. is the old insanity of the mid 20th century liberal theology and you don’t recognize it? There is no conversion in it, just old self-improvement. Your web dialogue is full of it. You folks don’t have instantaneous conversion new life like the Apostle Paul or any of the New Testament saints. Oh yes, you try to speak the language, but you don’t have what it really means. You’ve convinced yourselves with your fancy non-literal spiritual interpretations, but you don’t have the real thing. I wish you all would get honest with yourselves. Until you do, you never will be born again.

      • Mark February 18, 2013 at 1:32 am

        You are so stuck on the menu, you may never taste the meal.

  • Mark February 18, 2013 at 1:30 am

    The menu is not the meal!

    • Lanny A. Eichert February 19, 2013 at 6:30 pm

      Mark forgets the menu is an accurate description of the meal.

      You don’t have to sample evil to know it. All you have to do is believe God’s words on the subject.

      • Mark February 22, 2013 at 1:07 am

        No word is an accurate description of an experience. The words “Butternut Squash Soup” tells me nothing of what it tastes. Words are mere symbols. And I might add I’ve had hundreds of butternut squash soups and they’ve all tasted different. My past experience with these words cannot even accurately predict how I’ll experience them today. Sure, words can provide clues and guidance — but there are not substitutes for true experience.

        Also, God’s words on the subject would be of no tongue of Earth. It is arrogance and ignorance to think you know a word to be truth. This hurts you and it hurts others. It is not evil, but it causes pain nonetheless. It alienates you from your fellow man. It makes your words lonely and divisive. This is not what Jesus preached. He did not preach judgment. He preached love. He preached forgiveness. He preached in parables and not in ‘this here is fact”. Try parables on for size. They are myths that relate to the human experience — not stone cold facts that condemn others. An eye for an eye and the wold word is blind. Turn the other cheek said Jesus. Turn it even to those who do not believe as you. You have called my thoughts evil. You have suggested I will go to hell? What kind of Christian would say that to a fellow man? A father? A person who works every day to follow his heart and do good work while here on Earth? Simply because I do not interpret ‘words’ the same way you do? I have compassion for you — even in your condemnation me. It is truly not I who is suffering. But know that I do not judge your suffering. It is your own doing…your own responsibility…perhaps your own penance (if for some reason your unconscious is guilty). I wish you the most profound of deep suffering that it may burn the layers of your righteous loathing of others to a pure love of all life …of all man. I pray you weep for the beauty that is in yourself and that you have to share with the world.

        Ultimately, I wish you healing. You may not understand in your head, but your higher self never sleeps and I pray it hears the message.

        Peace be with you.

        Mark

        • Stephen Helbig February 22, 2013 at 11:01 pm

          Post/comment on February 22, 2013 at 1:07 am, BEAUTIFULLY penned.

        • Lanny A. Eichert February 23, 2013 at 8:18 pm

          Sorry, Mark, that you haven’t read Jesus saying “O generation of vipers” three times {Matthew 3: 7; 12: 34; 3: 33} and “Ye are of your father the devil” {John 8: 44}

          You and the rest of Alice’s friends have drunk liberal poison and you don’t want me to love you by telling you the truth?

          Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? {Galatians 4: 16}

          • Lanny A. Eichert February 23, 2013 at 8:22 pm

            Matthew 23: 33 that is.

          • Lanny A. Eichert February 23, 2013 at 8:46 pm

            “An evil and adulterous generation” {Matthew 12: 39}

            “A wicked and adulterous generation” {Matthew 16: 4}

            “this adulterous and sinful generation” {Mark 8: 38}

            “O faithless and perverse generation” {Luke 9: 41}

            Where’s your loving jesus, Mark? Yes, I am warning you that you’re a hell-bound sinner in need of Truth {Jesus} real bad. If you don’t get the Truth before you die, you will burn in hell in eternal torment for sure. Your version of jesus is not real, dear boy, therefore you can’t have real faith. That’s what I’m trying to tell you.

            There’s enough in “your menu” to signal me it is far from true.

            • admin February 24, 2013 at 12:39 am

              Lanny, how can you presume to know Mark is a “hell-bound sinner”? Who made you God and judge over everyone?

              • Lanny A. Eichert February 24, 2013 at 1:22 am

                Alice, don’t you know the basics? He’s got the wrong kind of jesus, just like I showed you two: you too.

        • Lanny A. Eichert February 23, 2013 at 9:36 pm

          suggested I will go to hell? What kind of Christian would say that?

          Mark, I guess you don’t need Jesus, then. Everybody in the natural is going to hell and the only way to prevent that is to preach to them the God-man Jesus died on the cross with their sins in His own body. Why? Because in love He provided the way to remove all their sins if they’d only believe it is done for them; and then they’ll miss hell and go straight to heaven when they die.

          Look, Mark, Jesus bore in His mortal earthly body our sins, so therefore only while we are yet in our mortal bodies can we have our mortal sins removed by Jesus’ death suffered on this earth. That’s where the cross is, Mark, on this earth. That’s why He said {John 8: 21 & 24} that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Only in this life God is able to forgive sins. They were committed in this life and in this life they must be forgiven. Once you die with your sins you keep them forever and if the fire doesn’t torment you forever, your sins will.

          If you get the faith right in Jesus Christ, then you will from that moment through all eternity have no more sins based on total forgiveness. In this life after faith has rightly come does NOT mean experiential sinless perfection, but it does mean progressive sanctification while completely forgiven.

          • Mark March 1, 2013 at 12:39 pm

            if you are to believe so fully in just the menu, might I suggest you beef up on your ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek because all that menu you are hung up on has been translated a thousand times — handed down a thousand times — edited a thousand times — and so on. You’re gonna trust that menu to the hands of a lofty game of religious telephone? I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor to find truth as well. Religion to me should be defined as a pursuit of truth.

            • Lanny A. Eichert March 2, 2013 at 2:45 am

              Should be defined as trusting God to do it right: a perfect literal Holy Bible. Otherwise you have no God.

              • Mark March 3, 2013 at 9:53 am

                Well…if God truly delivered it in the orignal Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic — what chance does a *** person like you reading the English translations 2 thousand some years on have of understanding that perfect literal Holy Bible. Ahh — the perfect fallacy. If I say it is God’s will, then it is so. If you have any insight, it is the work of the devil because you do not accept things they way I do and I know God.

                You know what Lanny. Have you ever considered that you and those like you are the perverse generation? You’ve perverted the message and damned everyone else in the process. Your adultery? You’ve been misled and cheated on the true message of love with righteous vitrolic nonsense.

                This blog? Why do you post all over it? It’s your subconscious yearning for your cursed blindness to be healed. It’s your yearning for freedom. Trust your heart and get out of your head my friend. It’s killing you. This sort of rigidness leads to all sorts of sickness and disease.

                Again, best of luck to you.

                • admin March 3, 2013 at 9:49 pm

                  I’m assuming that this bit: “If I say it is God’s will, then it is so. If you have any insight, it is the work of the devil because you do not accept things they way I do and I know God.” represents Lanny’s approach to theological discussion, and I must agree that it is not a productive way to gain or share insight. Any truth can be unintentionally dismissed and any lie can be unintentionally embraced, and the best safeguard against this is to allow every belief to be scrutinized, especially the most cherished beliefs. Ideas that must be heavily defended and guarded in order to stand are probably not ideas that have inherent value.

                • Michael Sanders March 6, 2013 at 7:25 am

                  You are talking about the Concordant Literal Translation right.

                  • Stephen Helbig March 6, 2013 at 7:56 pm

                    You are talking about the Concordant Literal Translation right.

                    ……….. /–)
                    ………/ …/
                    ……./ ….(__ ____
                    ▓▓…….. ..((_ l___)
                    ▓▓…….. ..((_ i___)
                    ▓▓…….. ..((_ k__)
                    ▓▓—-.___ ((_e_ )

                  • Lanny A. Eichert March 6, 2013 at 11:59 pm

                    Michael, today the Holy Bible is the best preserved book ever produced by the massive amount of old copies and fragments catalogued and compared in order to determine what might have been the original spelling of every word. That being said testifies that God’s saints always had a perfect Bible, since we can determine the perfect spelling, even if they before us could not, yet they had some of the texts upon which we heavily rely. They trusted those texts that God had preserved unto them. Since they are God’s saints in reality their faith was proper which it could not be without a perfect Holy Bible.

                    Don’t you see that if there were no perfect Holy Bible on the earth at any period of time, then there’d be no saints on the earth during that period of time. If that were the case from that period forward there could never have been any truth, never been any faith, never been any Christianity; because the Bible would have cease to be true: a situation from which there is no recovery. Why? Because the only way to recover the Bible would be by NEW revelation.

                    That’s precisely the Mormon religion. The Mormon religion is based on the claim that the Christian Bible is corrupt making all the Christian churches corrupt and all their creeds abominal. Ask any Mormon. Their logic is good. A corrupt Bible means a corrupt church which means corrupt believers.

                    Now, look, we didn’t live then, but we live now. We cannot accurately know yesteryear as we know today, so stick with what we know about our day. We have so much textual evidence of the Bible that we can establish the spelling of every word in the Bible. Since we have many promises in the Bible that God preserves His words and we don’t know enough of yesteryear to prove it so, we are obligated by faith to believe God did it for them just as well as we can prove it to ourselves about our day.

                    Whatever TRANSLATION we might use, with it usually comes helps that lead us to variants by which we can determine how best to understand the words of the original text. The same was true in yesteryears, although limited, yet sufficient.

          • Lanny A. Eichert March 5, 2013 at 12:52 am

            Mark & Alice, let’s stay with the real issue of the forgiveness of sins. Jesus came to die for our sins and if you don’t comply in simple grateful faith to His loving work, both of you will die in your sins without hope of ever being forgiven. Faith is just trusting exactly what Jesus said. The only place to know what Jesus said is the perfect literal Holy Bible. In it Jesus said two things will never be corrupted: one is His church and the other is His Scriptures. Why will you two not believe God is perfectly capable of maintaining an always perfect literal Holy Bible among all the translations currently available to humanity? Especially when Alice asserts God always gets what He wants. Do you think He wants humanity to distort His Holy Bible which He Himself in the Holy Spirit inspired and superintended its entire production over the course of two thousand years? You seem to also expect the corruption of His church which He said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. What you need to expect is that they will certainly attempt to corrupt both and will produce multiple fakes; however you aught also to expect, if you had faith, is that the earth will never be without the true version of both. Therefore there are always true believers in and with a true version of the Holy Bible. You position prohibits both in all practicality.

            You must believe the exact words of the Holy Bible regarding eternal torment and the Gospel, otherwise you are hell-bound sinners who will surely burn without remedy in your sins. To refuse to so believe is to call God a Liar Who cannot preserve His individual words. Don’t you undertstand that means you cannot be “believers” and certainly not “Christians” in any sense of the word. What kind of god writes a book that he cannot preserve? An impotent god is who. A impotent god cannot save anybody. All you have is this life in which to decide. When you die it will be too late: you will have died IN your sins and they will never leave you alone. The cross where there is forgiveness of sins was ONLY on this earth, meaning only while on this earth is ther forgiveness. Only the Blood of Jesus Christ of this earth is available to cleanse from all sins. When He comes the second time it will be WITHOUT sin, clearly stating He will not be in any forgiving mode toward sinners.

            In an instant you can become a saint if you will only believe the truth and reject the lie: that very moment you make that decision. Please do and be instantly saved for all your remaining time and all eternity. Trust God’s intent is to save people in this life only, especially you. When He saves in this life, He saves to the uttermost all that come unto Him TRUSTING Him to fully save them.

            Look, dear people, God set up the program and you must come into it God’s way, not your supposed way. There is only one way, God’s way. God’s way includes eternal torment as the consequence of failure to come God’s way. God is NARROW minded as He said in Matthew 7: 13 & 14.

            • Mark March 9, 2013 at 2:41 pm

              Agreed. Now you need to reject the lie. The lie that you know everything! Accept that and GOD can enter your heart!!!

            • Lanny A. Eichert March 11, 2013 at 1:48 pm

              Mark, to WHAT are you agreeing and to WHAT lie do you make reference?

              • Mark March 15, 2013 at 11:59 pm

                Agreed that one must reject the lie. The lie that they know God’s will in their minds. Accept that your mind cannot save you and then (and only then) can your heart can open to God!!

              • Lanny A. Eichert March 17, 2013 at 10:22 pm

                WHERE do you get THAT? What’s your authority? Isn’t it from yourself you invent such a concept?

                Mark, you have no TRUTH without the perfect literal Holy Bible. ALL other ideas originate from wicked minds. Only the Holy Bible reveals the will of God. God is transcendent and unknowable apart from what He reveals of Himself.

                • Mark March 28, 2013 at 11:32 am

                  from the beautiful open spaces of my heart…the spaces that lead me to heaven and away from suffering. my authority is my experience — my love — my suffering — my compassion — my joy. a perfect literal holy bible is an oxymoron. language, by it’s very nature, is flawed and imperfect.

                  • Lanny A. Eichert March 28, 2013 at 5:24 pm

                    from the beautiful open spaces of my heart
                    In other words hot air.

                    Mark, you are your own authority: what you think is true is true. You are god.

                    a perfect literal holy bible is an oxymoron
                    You fully deny the Holy Bible and have no solid ground: “the spaces” are empty without substance.

                    • Mark March 29, 2013 at 10:48 pm

                      Tell me, who is the author and editor of the bible you read Lanny?

                  • Lanny A. Eichert March 30, 2013 at 11:37 pm

                    Mark, the author and editor of the Holy Bible is none other than God Himself. It is a supernatural Book, written by God and preserved by God. That Book tells its readers Who wrote it and Who preserved it. People ignorant of Its contents don’t seem to know that, but invent all kinds of excuses to not believe each and every spelt word contained in it. Why do you think it is the most attacked Book of all those possessed by humanity? I know why: because It is God’s Book meaning every human being is judged by It as sinners in need of a salvation they cannot provide. That salvation is celebrated this Easter Sunday in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, an accepted literal fact of human history. That fact itself proves the divinity of the Holy Bible which prophetically proclaimed His death and resurrection hundreds of years before His incarnation, His First Advent. “First” because He is coming again, but when He comes He will come, not with love, but with Judgment upon every person who rejected His words.

                    • Mark March 31, 2013 at 10:26 pm

                      Ok. And who is God himself?

  • We Feel Connected « www.whatgoddoes.com March 18, 2013 at 9:34 pm

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  • Mark April 13, 2013 at 9:11 am

    John 10:34: Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”‘?

    • Lanny A. Eichert April 13, 2013 at 10:38 pm

      So, Mark, if a perfect literal holy bible is an oxymoron, why do you quote it?

      Didn’t I write correctly? Mark, you are your own authority: what you think is true is true. You are god.

      According to Mark, everybody is god. There are as many gods as there are persons. What is true depends on who thinks it and what they think.

      Therefore there is no common ground for discussion.

      ONLY the perfect literal Holy Bible establishes the absolute standard for discussion. Who is God Himself? He is your Creator and mine. He is the Absolute Authority. You have none apart from Him. Neither have I.

      • Mark April 15, 2013 at 1:29 pm

        Just pointing out a contradiction in your own logic.

        So now…which parts of the Bible are Holy and absolute and which parts are heresy?

        Is John 10:34 not part of the perfect literal Holy Bible?

        • Lanny A. Eichert April 15, 2013 at 5:43 pm

          Mark, what’s the contradiction, since I see none other than your manufactured one caused by your lack of understanding Biblical language? Naturally since you’re an “outsider” you’re not equipt to understand it.

          The greater issue you avoid is your lack of common ground with anybody when everybody is a god unto themselves. You seem to be rejecting your Creator’s authority because you don’t want to be responsible to Him. You want your thoughts to be more important than God’s.

  • We Feel Connected - January 6, 2015 at 9:53 pm

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